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Subject: Suicide with a barrier? rss

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Francis Bergeron
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I know if my enemy force me to suicide i instantly eliminate the Roamer.

But, what if i put a barrier beside my Roamer that caused a forced situation, because he is already surrounded by 3 enemy barriers and, this forced situation, commit me to suicide...

Can i put this barrier and kill my Roamer?

I ask, because i've faced a situation where this move could been advantageous for me.

We played that i can't since we know that i can't commit a suicide by moving my Roamer to a "dead end with no comeback" but my situation is different than moving a Roamer, it's committing suicide by placing a barrier.


(again, a totally crazy game tonight!)
 
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Blue Mountain
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elsewhere Rich wrote:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/6811532#6811532

"Movement into an entrapped (suicide) position entails immediate death. The roamer so-killed does not survive long enough to perform ANY kind of block or kill another roamer"

I assume the same principle applies to barrier placement... i'm sure Rich will clarify.
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Francis Bergeron
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You're right Blue Mountain, got my 2 roamers against one.(oops! you edited as i write my answer)

Putting a wall where it kill my roamer would have prevented him to put his own one at the same place to give him an exit(and kill my left for dead roamer).

... I think the situation is different than being putted in a suicide situation that lead to instant death by the opponent.

But we know that we can't jump in an entraped situation, so the same surely apply with wall placement that cause suicide.

Maybe Rich will surprise us with his answer??

Thanks for your reply


btw, your interesting review/comments(and from others too) about entrapment here on bgg lead me to buy and play the game!! Thanks
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Blue Mountain
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Tchan wrote:



btw, your interesting review/comments(and from others too) about entrapment here on bgg lead me to buy and play the game!! Thanks
I'm glad you enjoyed my review... it's a great game.
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Rich Gowell
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Hey guys,
Francis I'm not sure i'm precisely picturing the scenario you describe, but in short, you can always create a force for yourself, even if the next move for you is a compulsory suicide jump. There are conceivable situations where a friendly wall placement can result in immediate death for a friendly roamer, for instance by inducing the second force of a double force, but the tactics that make this advantageous are so rare, that I don't
know that the rules speak to it (again, they are not at hand, sorry). My instinct is to allow ANY wall placement. It seems to me as well, that boardspace doesn't prohibit any barrier placement, so for consistency's sake.....
:-)
Good tough questions. Hope this helps. If not, let me know.
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Francis Bergeron
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Thanks Rich, (hope my english is clear enough)


Your answer is clear.

... but just a small thing, when i place the wall my roamer is instantly eliminated at my turn, right? I really think it is...

Surely those kind of moves are rarely advantageous, but i faced one... Damn!! i tried it, knowing i can... would have been great cool


To get the look of the situation:

X= barrier
O= My roamer


I put a barrier just beside my roamer.

... X..X
...XO...X
....X..X

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Rich Gowell
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Ok, so three enemy barriers surround your roamer. Is there anything occupying the square adjacent to the fourth side(ie another friendly roamer)? If not (if the adjacent square is empty), then placing a wall along this fourth side will only create a forced position, in which case it is not immediate death. The opponent would move next, and if he entered this adjacent square, that is when your roamer would die. If he does not enter the square, then your roamer would survive to your next turn and be forced to jump out. If the adjacent square is an entrapped position (ie no exit from any side) then the roamer would die immediately upon entering the square.
 
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Francis Bergeron
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richgowell wrote:
If the adjacent square is an entrapped position (ie no exit from any side) then the roamer would die immediately upon entering the square.


Yes, the adjacent square is an entraped position.

You tell me that i survive one more turn even if my forced position lead me to death? So i put a barrier beside my roamer causing a forced move and then on my next turn i eliminate this roamer because he jump on an entrapped position?

If putting a barrier is allowed but forced me to suicide, i was thinking of an immediate death in the same sense as the rules describe a forced position caused by my opponent.

Rules: "... a roamer may even be forced to move into an entrapped position, in which case it is immediately eliminated."

and "Movement into an entrapped (suicide) position entails immediate death. The roamer so-killed does not survive long enough to perform ANY kind of block or kill another roamer" (But, i know placing a wall is not movement like this example)
 
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Rich Gowell
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When the rules you quote say "immediate" it means immediately upon entering the entrapped position, BUT not before. So survival lasts until the actual move where you jump the roamer to his death. Only after this action is he immediately killed. This is true regardless of whether the suicidal force is created by you or your opponent. When we meet sometime soon on boardspace, we can create examples which clarify any further confusion regarding this.
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Francis Bergeron
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richgowell wrote:
When the rules you quote say "immediate" it means immediately upon entering the entrapped position, BUT not before. So survival lasts until the actual move where you jump the roamer to his death.


Oh nice, we always keeped in mind that being in a forced position that lead to suicide is an instant death, thinking we can't act as a suicide move. Happy to clear this one.

Thanks, all is totally clear now.

 
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Rich Gowell
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Glad I could help
 
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Aaron Zinck
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Tchan wrote:
richgowell wrote:
When the rules you quote say "immediate" it means immediately upon entering the entrapped position, BUT not before. So survival lasts until the actual move where you jump the roamer to his death.


Oh nice, we always keeped in mind that being in a forced position that lead to suicide is an instant death, thinking we can't act as a suicide move. Happy to clear this one.

Thanks, all is totally clear now.



I wonder if you're playing properly: when you create the forced position for yourself you do not immediately jump the barrier to relieve the force. You are only required to relieve a force if it exists at the *beginning* of a turn. In that case, your first action must be to relieve the force. But you can create a force at the end of a turn (as you're suggesting) and your roamer will just stay in that forced position until the beginning of the next turn, at which point you'll be required to relieve the force and commit suicide.
 
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