Mike Russo
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The OL card "Word of Misery" says, "Play this card at the start of your turn. During this turn, each time a hero suffers any heart, he also suffers 1 fatigue in addition to the heart suffered."

Does that mean a hero suffers 3 damage and three fatigue, or just 1 fatigue each time X damage is done?
 
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Kelly Overholser
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It says he suffers 1 fatigue whenever he suffers any wounds. Not "fatigue equal to the wounds suffered", but just 1 fatigue. So yes, only 3 damage and 1 fatigue if he got hit for 3 damage.
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I agree with Kelly's interpretation as well.

1 fatigue for each "packet" of damage is how I read it.
 
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Mike Russo
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Ok good. That was the way we played it but I wasn't sure.
 
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Sam Welbaum
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I'd read it as 1 fatigue per wound. The wording seems to indicate that its a 1 to 1 corollary.
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Sleepwalker42 wrote:
I'd read it as 1 fatigue per wound. The wording seems to indicate that its a 1 to 1 corollary.

I don't read it that way; to me, it is 1 fatigue in addition to the total damage. In the iconography used the game, the heart symbol is often used as a plural.

I can see how it could be read either way, but for a basic-level card, if it was 1-for-1 it would be hands down the most powerful Basic card, as at a point, that would basically cause it to do double damage once their fatigue is maxed; that would even make it more powerful than most of the purchasable cards!

For what it's worth, we played it that way the first time and it just ended up being FAR too strong that way, and upon re-reading it, I'm pretty sure that it's only meant to be 1 fatigue per "damage dealing trigger event". If it was meant to be 1 fatigue per heart, I think it would have said "1 fatigue for each heart suffered" instead of "1 fatigue in addition to the heart suffered".
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Mike Spartz
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Not to mention if it were 1:1 it would double the damage taken by any hero who is out of fatigue.
 
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Tristan Angeles

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I see the interpretation clearly going both ways, and when that happens I try to see if there is a better wording for each side. If there isn't, that's probably the way to interpret it.

1:1 argument can clearly be restated as:
Heroes incur fatigue equal to the wounds received this turn

Batch argument:
Whenever a hero takes one or more wounds, they also incur one fatigue.

The batch argument is closer to the wording of the card, so I go by that. Again, I do see the argument going both ways, but this system helps me try to see the intent of the designer and guess at it. I might be wrong, but I think it works
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Purple Paladin

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Agreed, it would be double damage. Min'us well have the OL card say "You are defeated if you are out of fatigue and take any damage".
 
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Sam Welbaum
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The RedEye wrote:
I see the interpretation clearly going both ways, and when that happens I try to see if there is a better wording for each side. If there isn't, that's probably the way to interpret it.

1:1 argument can clearly be restated as:
Heroes take one incur fatigue equal to the wounds received this turn

Batch argument:
Whenever a hero takes one or more wounds, they also incur one fatigue.

The batch argument is closer to the wording of the card, so I go by that. Again, I do see the argument going both ways, but this system helps me try to see the intent of the designer and guess at it. I might be wrong, but I think it works


I do like that system. I think the natural reading of the card goes to the former...but that makes it insanely powerful. However, it is the only power card in the deck and therefore should be insanely powerful, and the other wording seems to mitigate that power significantly.

Then again, playing it the way that its a 1 to 1...we've done 3 maps, with 2 OL wins and 1 hero win, so it doesn't seem that unbalanced (the maps the OL won with Castle Darean and the Cardinal, both are slanted toward the OL).

I can see either was well...I just think the wording and what I'd assume the intent was was to make there be a powerful card that made it so the heroes might get knocked out in the course of a game. But...I really do see the wording argument that you brought forth.
 
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Sleepwalker42 wrote:
The RedEye wrote:
I see the interpretation clearly going both ways, and when that happens I try to see if there is a better wording for each side. If there isn't, that's probably the way to interpret it.

1:1 argument can clearly be restated as:
Heroes take one incur fatigue equal to the wounds received this turn

Batch argument:
Whenever a hero takes one or more wounds, they also incur one fatigue.

The batch argument is closer to the wording of the card, so I go by that. Again, I do see the argument going both ways, but this system helps me try to see the intent of the designer and guess at it. I might be wrong, but I think it works


I do like that system. I think the natural reading of the card goes to the former..

I guess I'm with RedEye; I think the natural wording favors the latter; when it says "suffers any heart", that, to me, is pretty much equivalent to "one or more heart"; the latter part, referring to "heart suffered" is the "any heart" suffered. IE, to me, it reads "1 fatigue per trigger", and the trigger is "one or more heart". 5 heart is still just one trigger.

It may be the only Power card, but for a Basic card to be more powerful than the cards you can buy doesn't seem right.
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Sam Welbaum
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sigmazero13 wrote:
Sleepwalker42 wrote:
The RedEye wrote:
I see the interpretation clearly going both ways, and when that happens I try to see if there is a better wording for each side. If there isn't, that's probably the way to interpret it.

1:1 argument can clearly be restated as:
Heroes take one incur fatigue equal to the wounds received this turn

Batch argument:
Whenever a hero takes one or more wounds, they also incur one fatigue.

The batch argument is closer to the wording of the card, so I go by that. Again, I do see the argument going both ways, but this system helps me try to see the intent of the designer and guess at it. I might be wrong, but I think it works


I do like that system. I think the natural reading of the card goes to the former..

I guess I'm with RedEye; I think the natural wording favors the latter; when it says "suffers any heart", that, to me, is pretty much equivalent to "one or more heart"; the latter part, referring to "heart suffered" is the "any heart" suffered. IE, to me, it reads "1 fatigue per trigger", and the trigger is "one or more heart". 5 heart is still just one trigger.

It may be the only Power card, but for a Basic card to be more powerful than the cards you can buy doesn't seem right.


And I oddly enough haven't looked at those yet...that might change my opinion



 
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Chris Ferejohn
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sigmazero13 wrote:
Sleepwalker42 wrote:
The RedEye wrote:
I see the interpretation clearly going both ways, and when that happens I try to see if there is a better wording for each side. If there isn't, that's probably the way to interpret it.

1:1 argument can clearly be restated as:
Heroes take one incur fatigue equal to the wounds received this turn

Batch argument:
Whenever a hero takes one or more wounds, they also incur one fatigue.

The batch argument is closer to the wording of the card, so I go by that. Again, I do see the argument going both ways, but this system helps me try to see the intent of the designer and guess at it. I might be wrong, but I think it works


I do like that system. I think the natural reading of the card goes to the former..

I guess I'm with RedEye; I think the natural wording favors the latter; when it says "suffers any heart", that, to me, is pretty much equivalent to "one or more heart"; the latter part, referring to "heart suffered" is the "any heart" suffered. IE, to me, it reads "1 fatigue per trigger", and the trigger is "one or more heart". 5 heart is still just one trigger.

It may be the only Power card, but for a Basic card to be more powerful than the cards you can buy doesn't seem right.


This is how I read it too. I honestly didn't even consider it ambiguous. If it had said "Suffers a heart" it would be 1:1, but "any heart" seems pretty clearly (to me) to mean "takes one or more damage".
 
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Tristan Angeles

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The "RedEye language test" (patent pending) is designed to try to guess writers intent when intent of balance is unclear. Usually there is a better argument in balance, but as stated its only one card.

To be honest, without going to this thread, I probably would have done 1:1 and thought it was obvious. Good thing I haven't encountered the card yet.
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Garth Bowden
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I think fantasy flight made a mistake by saying "any". The poison ability of the cave spider says "if this attack deals at least 1♥ (after the defense roll), the target is poisoned". They could have said "Each time a monster attacks a hero, if the attack deals at least 1♥ (after the defense roll), that hero loses 1 fatigue."

I disagree with the 1:1 interpretation simply for balance reasons.

"Any" could refer to a 1:1 map, such as the common statement of the existence of a limit of a function: "For any ε>0 there is a δ>0 such that for any x satisfying 0 < |x - c| < δ we have |f(x) - L| < ε"

Any also doesn't imply plural. I could say "Is there any woman who will stand against me?"


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Sylvain BONNEAU
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Is it me or does this boil down to yet another timing issue? Are the damages dealt one at a time or all together, like in a damage resolution step or something?

--
Buggy
 
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Kelly Overholser
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Dragon_Slave wrote:
I think fantasy flight made a mistake by saying "any". The poison ability of the cave spider says "if this attack deals at least 1♥ (after the defense roll), the target is poisoned". They could have said "Each time a monster attacks a hero, if the attack deals at least 1♥ (after the defense roll), that hero loses 1 fatigue."

I disagree with the 1:1 interpretation simply for balance reasons.

"Any" could refer to a 1:1 map, such as the common statement of the existence of a limit of a function: "For any ε>0 there is a δ>0 such that for any x satisfying 0 < |x - c| < δ we have |f(x) - L| < ε"

Any also doesn't imply plural. I could say "Is there any woman who will stand against me?"


Keep in mind that this also applies to damage from other sources, not just damage from monster attacks (i.e. Pit Trap card, Word of Pain card, etc). So wording it that way wouldn't work.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Dragon_Slave wrote:

Any also doesn't imply plural. I could say "Is there any woman who will stand against me?"

Perhaps not, but it doesn't imply singular, either.

"If you catch any fish, I'll give you a dollar."

(This isn't necessarily saying you'll give them a dollar per fish; it could just as easily mean if the number of fish caught is more than 0, you'll give them a dollar regardless of the number).
 
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Blank Francis
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I agree that the card could have been worded better, but if you read it closely I think it is obvious that you take one fatigue if you suffered any damage, not one fatigue for each damage.

"During this turn, each time a hero suffers any heart (as in, any number of heart), he also suffers 1 fatigue in addition to the heart (as in, the previously mentioned 'any number of heart') suffered".
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Mike Russo
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Just in case anyone is still subscribed to this thread and didn't happen to see the announcement for the FAQ, this has been officially answered:

Quote:
Q: Does “Word of Misery” cause a hero to suffer 1 fatigue for each damage suffered?
A: No, “Word of Misery” causes a hero to suffer 1 fatigue each time he would suffer any amount of damage. For example, if a hero suffers 3 damage, he would suffer 1 fatigue in addition to the 3 damage he suffered.
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