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Subject: Some questions regarding changing direction of movement rss

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Alex F
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I'm still waiting for my 4th edition and expansions to arrive. In the meantime, some queries

1) I don't have the 2nd edition rules in front of me, but we've always played that you can change your direction of movement not only when crossing regions(from outer to middle and vice versa), but also when being teleported anywhere within the same region(whether by a spell, place, stranger, etc).
Does anyone else play like this?

2) Am I correct to assume that on the turn on which you change(choose) your direction of movement, you get to decide where to go after you've rolled the die?

In general, I can't wait to start playing Talisman again. Makes me nostalgic for the good ole' times

I like the game for its simplicity and randomness(over which you still get to exercise a bit of control, and now even more, with fate-great!)and how it weaves a new strange narrative each time you play.
I tend to favor games that don't require lots of advanced planning as my AP starts acting up whenever there's a multitude of options and strategies to consider.
This is why I suck at Descent.

Thank you, Talisman, for not being chess.
 
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01neo01
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1) Yes. I don't have the rules in front neither, but i think that the rules say that.
2) We play that way
.
 
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Ray
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1) I too don't have the rules in front of me, but I'm pretty certain that is correct.

2) I thought it was you roll the die and then decided which direction to move (clockwise or counter-clockwise).

I look at Talisman as a semi-interactive adventure story. Some complain there is to much "Randomness". Sure, there is randomness, but you still have basic control of your adventure story. More control then most will realize.

 
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Herodian Smith
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Confirmed, the (4th ed) rules do say you roll the die first, then choose direction of movement. There is a bit about changing direction if you want when you change regions.

You will not have to worry about case #1, though. Encountered effects happen to you after you have finished your rolled movement, not during, so no "mid-move" teleport is possible, unless I have forgotten something important.
 
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Aaron Tubb
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You get to pick which direction you move each turn, and you can choose again when you cross the river mid-move, but the situation in your first question cannot happen, since teleporting happens either instead of, or after, regular movement. After teleporting, you do encounter the space you just warped to, even if you already encountered other spaces during the same turn.
 
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Alex F
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Thanks for the replies, guys.
Herodian wrote:
Confirmed, the (4th ed) rules do say you roll the die first, then choose direction of movement. There is a bit about changing direction if you want when you change regions.

You will not have to worry about case #1, though. Encountered effects happen to you after you have finished your rolled movement, not during, so no "mid-move" teleport is possible, unless I have forgotten something important.

What I meant with #1 is on the turn following the teleport to any square, you get to choose your direction again.
I suppose I've always felt that being teleported screws with your movement pattern, leaving you disoriented, so you get to choose again.
 
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Herodian Smith
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On the following turn, you would choose your direction anew anyway, teleport or no teleport. So the way you're playing it works out just right.
 
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Alex F
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That was my question. I thought that you only choose direction of movement under three circumstances:
1)game initial turn
2) when crossing regions or
3) on the turn following the teleportation to any square, even in the same region.
But the rules on page 9 state:

The character then moves the full count of the die roll, either clockwise or counterclockwise at his discretion.Direction may not be reversed during a move except when passing between the Outer and Middle regions.

The phrasing there is a bit ambivalent.But I got it now. If you started going clockwise, but have crossed to another region in mid-move you may alter your direction.
Well, I think I'll stick to playing the way we played. It doesn't seem fair to change your direction of movement every turn.
 
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Ray
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magmaxtic wrote:
That was my question. I thought that you only choose direction of movement under three circumstances:
1)game initial turn
2) when crossing regions or
3) on the turn following the teleportation to any square, even in the same region.
But the rules on page 9 state:

The character then moves the full count of the die roll, either clockwise or counterclockwise at his discretion.Direction may not be reversed during a move except when passing between the Outer and Middle regions.

The phrasing there is a bit ambivalent.But I got it now. If you started going clockwise, but have crossed to another region in mid-move you may alter your direction.
Well, I think I'll stick to playing the way we played. It doesn't seem fair to change your direction of movement every turn.


When it says, "...may not be reversed during a move except when passing between the Outer and Middle regions." it is in reference to "counterclockwise" or "clockwise" directions. So if you start going counterclockwise after rolling the die, and you end up changing regions, you can continue to go counterclockwise "or" my switch and go clockwise instead. Basically, you can't go back and forth in the same region. But you do have choices after you roll the die. Unless you are in the Oasis and you roll a "1". It is either lose a life or lose a life... got water!

I can't imagine having to keep going in the same direction for the entire game. What if you are trying to get someplace like the city, graveyard, chapel, or something. If you miss, that means you have to go all the way around the board just for another 1 in 6 chance to land on the space you are trying to get to.
 
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Alex F
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I suppose that we like to feel less in control, more in the mercy of the die roll. Otherwise, you'll always be able to bypass the immediately harmful locations.
Such as: good characters will always choose not to land on the graveyard.

Or, imagine this: in a certain sector of the board, several squares in succession are filled with beneficial cards. You'll just be able to hop between them indefinitely or until you've claimed their rewards.
 
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Ray
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magmaxtic wrote:
I suppose that we like to feel less in control, more in the mercy of the die roll. Otherwise, you'll always be able to bypass the immediately harmful locations.
Such as: good characters will always choose not to land on the graveyard.

Or, imagine this: in a certain sector of the board, several squares in succession are filled with beneficial cards. You'll just be able to hop between them indefinitely or until you've claimed their rewards.


Actually, not as easy as one might think. Once I had to go visit the mystic (in the village), but I kept missing the space because I only had a one in six chance of rolling the number I needed to land on the space. It took me something like eight attempts.

I guess playing the way you do would make it even harder because if you miss the space, you have to go all the way around the board just for another 1 in 6 chance to land on that space.

Neat idea, but I'll just stick with the official rules of movement
 
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Alex F
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Hmmm, we've played with these rules so much, any alterations feel counter-intuitive
As I said, we have control over direction of movement but only on those circumstances.
Imagine missing that one item you covet that someone dropped off due to conflicting alignment, excessive baggage or untimely demise. Oops, one more lap is in order.Or pray for some kind of translocation. It's exhilarating.
 
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Dan
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magmaxtic wrote:
I suppose that we like to feel less in control, more in the mercy of the die roll. Otherwise, you'll always be able to bypass the immediately harmful locations.
Such as: good characters will always choose not to land on the graveyard.


Or, imagine this: in a certain sector of the board, several squares in succession are filled with beneficial cards. You'll just be able to hop between them indefinitely or until you've claimed their rewards.


I imagine that playing with such a rule would make the games last/take longer but I couldn't say for sure without trying it. Yes, you do often get to avoid bad locations, but the upside is that you get a choice which is a key factor in making any game, giving the players interesting choices.

It's not so bad as you might think. Each roll a player usually has only two spaces to choose between, sometimes more if they have an option to teleport but usually only two. Often both choices are bad, or good, either way the player must choose.

magmaxtic wrote:
Or, imagine this: in a certain sector of the board, several squares in succession are filled with beneficial cards. You'll just be able to hop between them indefinitely or until you've claimed their rewards.


I don't have to imagine it, it happens all the time . But consider this, it's usually everyone hopping between them, and landing on eah other in the process. Hilarity ensues. .

Can we tempt you to try it for a game and see what you think?
 
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Herodian Smith
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When playing a character whose powers involve hunting other characters, such as the thief, it would be extremely frustrating to not be able to move toward a victim because you overshot them last turn. This is the only issue I see with your house rule, and if you guys play 'friendly' then perhaps even that is not an issue.

The important thing is to play the way you enjoy. As long as your group is happy, then carry on!
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Alex F
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We're going to try it both ways, and see what goes better.For some reason, traveling back and forth between spaces, aiming to land on a specific one feels really weird though. Well, habits are hard to break.

I think the introduction of fate in the 4th edition mitigates the randomness somewhat, giving you another shot during those critical rolls, so the extra choice during movement feels redundant, a luxury if you will.

We'll probably prohibit spending of fate in the inner region too since the final zone is supposed to be crippling in some way.

Oh, the naive adventurers who dared play a game of chance with the Grim Reaper, thinking their copious strength will help them in that endeavor were so wrong. I recall this being one of the most challenging spaces, since it's based on pure luck, and it was funny seeing the alleged victor getting stuck so firmly on it in pointless stand-offs and close call losses.

We've also houseruled the Pit Fiends to delay any character that fights them for a number of turns that equals their number. It just seems sensible that some sort of handicap is required for that space.
 
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magmaxtic wrote:
For some reason, traveling back and forth between spaces, aiming to land on a specific one feels really weird though.


You will find that going in one direction or the other will give you a little bit more flexibility and of course at least two spaces to choose from instead of one. However, it will not be all that easy if you are trying to land on one specific space since you have a 1 in 6 chance of landing there if you are withing 6 spaces from it. Unless you are my friend who seems to roll every number he needs.

Just remember, you roll the die (or dice if allowed) and then you choose to go either clockwise OR counterclockwise, but never back and forth.
 
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Alex F
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Yea, I got that. But constantly trying to land on a specific space you just overshot and desperately need to visit will result in characters traveling back and forth, visiting the same squares.
And if all the spaces in between are filled with blocking, uneventful cards(maze, swamp, etc), this would make for a weird game.

And what would happen in the event of a Blizzard-sidestep to the left, sidestep to the right.

I know I'm describing rather extreme situations and patterns, but still, under the official rules, these can be exploited for easier grinding.(hopping back and forth between a craft and strength source, for instance).
 
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Simon Wiese
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magmaxtic wrote:
That was my question. I thought that you only choose direction of movement under three circumstances:
1)game initial turn
2) when crossing regions or
3) on the turn following the teleportation to any square, even in the same region.
But the rules on page 9 state:

The character then moves the full count of the die roll, either clockwise or counterclockwise at his discretion.Direction may not be reversed during a move except when passing between the Outer and Middle regions.

The phrasing there is a bit ambivalent.But I got it now. If you started going clockwise, but have crossed to another region in mid-move you may alter your direction.
Well, I think I'll stick to playing the way we played. It doesn't seem fair to change your direction of movement every turn.


Haha this reminds me of the old days with our 2nd edition, that's how we played it, back then as well! In fact, this is how I came to know Talisman... A friend bought it for 1€ at some second hand market and although he said to us, that he knew the rules he taught us many wrong things when he explained us the game: You could not choose your direction, you could not cash monsters in for extra strenght and you could not stop your movement on the Sentinel and Portal of Power space... So you can imagine how long our sessions took and we made Talisman even more random than it actually already was! After years, I bought the 4th edition for myself and when I read the rules I discovered all those things for the first time But they really do improve the game! I would recommend to play it how it is meant to be played, but if you like it the way you used to play it, go for it, I remember we still had a great time back then even though we played it incorrectly
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magmaxtic wrote:
Yea, I got that. But constantly trying to land on a specific space you just overshot and desperately need to visit will result in characters traveling back and forth, visiting the same squares.
And if all the spaces in between are filled with blocking, uneventful cards(maze, swamp, etc), this would make for a weird game.

And what would happen in the event of a Blizzard-sidestep to the left, sidestep to the right.

I know I'm describing rather extreme situations and patterns, but still, under the official rules, these can be exploited for easier grinding.(hopping back and forth between a craft and strength source, for instance).


As long as you guys are having fun.

Just curious, how many players do you usually have? How long does the game take? Is there any PvP?
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Alex F
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We haven't played it in a long time, but when we were, those were usually one on one sessions. I recall that we also attempted team sessions of two vs. two. Those were pretty weird, ha!
I also played three characters solo several times.

I still haven't received my copy of the 4th edition, so I'm just playing things out in my mind with the official FFG rules; the 2nd edition I own looks so dated: the cards are wrinkled and old, and only the board still shows signs of former attractiveness.
We won't start playing until we get the 4th edition.

 
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BlackSimon wrote:
magmaxtic wrote:
That was my question. I thought that you only choose direction of movement under three circumstances:
1)game initial turn
2) when crossing regions or
3) on the turn following the teleportation to any square, even in the same region.
But the rules on page 9 state:

The character then moves the full count of the die roll, either clockwise or counterclockwise at his discretion.Direction may not be reversed during a move except when passing between the Outer and Middle regions.

The phrasing there is a bit ambivalent.But I got it now. If you started going clockwise, but have crossed to another region in mid-move you may alter your direction.
Well, I think I'll stick to playing the way we played. It doesn't seem fair to change your direction of movement every turn.


Haha this reminds me of the old days with our 2nd edition, that's how we played it, back then as well! In fact, this is how I came to know Talisman... A friend bought it for 1€ at some second hand market and although he said to us, that he knew the rules he taught us many wrong things when he explained us the game: You could not choose your direction, you could not cash monsters in for extra strenght and you could not stop your movement on the Sentinel and Portal of Power space... So you can imagine how long our sessions took and we made Talisman even more random than it actually already was! After years, I bought the 4th edition for myself and when I read the rules I discovered all those things for the first time But they really do improve the game! I would recommend to play it how it is meant to be played, but if you like it the way you used to play it, go for it, I remember we still had a great time back then even though we played it incorrectly

Your experience with the 2nd edition is very similar to ours. My version of the old edition is in Hebrew, and many of the rules are warped due to poor translation. Even the description on some of the cards is erroneous.

For instance, the Mermaid/Siren event card states that every character other than the troll, ranger, gnome and ghost will lose a turn.

What ghost? The craft 4 sprit> Haha. And then it hit me, they might have confused ghost with ghoul, and so it was improperly translated.
Hilarious!

We also started playing without monster trophies at first. It took us a year to dig up and learn that rule.
Additionally, we were taking craft and strength counters for initial values, and for every point gained from objects. Also when losing stats we would sometimes subtract from our initial values. It was insane!

Well, later on we got most of the rules ironed out, but it took several years, not until I was 16 that I willingly sat with the ruelbook, and found out that what we had been playing before was a completely different game. laugh
 
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Simon Wiese
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magmaxtic wrote:
Your experience with the 2nd edition is very similar to ours. My version of the old edition is in Hebrew, and many of the rules are warped due to poor translation. Even the description on some of the cards is erroneous.

For instance, the Mermaid/Siren event card states that every character other than the troll, ranger, gnome and ghost will lose a turn.

What ghost? The craft 4 sprit> Haha. And then it hit me, they might have confused ghost with ghoul, and so it was improperly translated.
Hilarious!


Oh yes, this does not seem to be a problem in the Hebrew version, only German Merchant card confused us as well, reading: "You can pay one gold to evade Goblins, Hobgoblins and Orcs" => Well, there was an Orc character in the Adventure expansion, but this one did not even exist in German, so we were wondering what this Orc referred to, until we realised that it was the Ogre
Also, the Rogue Character was a strange one: He could add 1 to his die roll whenever encountering the Witch, the Warlock or the Sorceress... We found this strange since the Sorceress was a playable character and it seemed kind of absurd, that certain characters get a combat bonus when fighting against other certain characters, but we played it that way. When I read the English version I realised it was the "Enchantress" (in the City!) and not the Sorceress (character) that was referred to in the Rogues ability

But the most dreaded character was the knight. Despite having poor stats in the German version (2 strenght, 3 craft... German characters have different stats than the International ones, took me years to realise this!), he seemed to be the most overpowered character (well, despite the Prophetess, maybe). The German card reads: Whenever you fight against another player, if your total combat score is less than your opponents, your combat score is raised to the value of your opponent => This made him invincible in normal PvP! When I checked the English card later I realised that it referred to the Combat strenght (Total Strenght + Weapon) and not to the Combat score (Total Strenght + Weapon + Die Roll)...
 
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BlackSimon wrote:
magmaxtic wrote:
Your experience with the 2nd edition is very similar to ours. My version of the old edition is in Hebrew, and many of the rules are warped due to poor translation. Even the description on some of the cards is erroneous.

For instance, the Mermaid/Siren event card states that every character other than the troll, ranger, gnome and ghost will lose a turn.

What ghost? The craft 4 sprit> Haha. And then it hit me, they might have confused ghost with ghoul, and so it was improperly translated.
Hilarious!


Oh yes, this does not seem to be a problem in the Hebrew version, only German Merchant card confused us as well, reading: "You can pay one gold to evade Goblins, Hobgoblins and Orcs" => Well, there was an Orc character in the Adventure expansion, but this one did not even exist in German, so we were wondering what this Orc referred to, until we realised that it was the Ogre
Also, the Rogue Character was a strange one: He could add 1 to his die roll whenever encountering the Witch, the Warlock or the Sorceress... We found this strange since the Sorceress was a playable character and it seemed kind of absurd, that certain characters get a combat bonus when fighting against other certain characters, but we played it that way. When I read the English version I realised it was the "Enchantress" (in the City!) and not the Sorceress (character) that was referred to in the Rogues ability

But the most dreaded character was the knight. Despite having poor stats in the German version (2 strenght, 3 craft... German characters have different stats than the International ones, took me years to realise this!), he seemed to be the most overpowered character (well, despite the Prophetess, maybe). The German card reads: Whenever you fight against another player, if your total combat score is the same as your opponents, your combat score is raised to the value of you opponent => This made him invincible in normal PvP! When I checked the English card later I realised that it referred to the Combat strenght (Total Strenght + Weapon) and not to the Combat score (Total Strenght + Weapon + Die Roll)...


That is the biggest problem with text extensive games. If the translation isn't done correctly, its almost a different game.
 
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Alex F
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BlackSimon wrote:
magmaxtic wrote:
Your experience with the 2nd edition is very similar to ours. My version of the old edition is in Hebrew, and many of the rules are warped due to poor translation. Even the description on some of the cards is erroneous.

For instance, the Mermaid/Siren event card states that every character other than the troll, ranger, gnome and ghost will lose a turn.

What ghost? The craft 4 sprit> Haha. And then it hit me, they might have confused ghost with ghoul, and so it was improperly translated.
Hilarious!


Oh yes, this does not seem to be a problem in the Hebrew version, only ;) German Merchant card confused us as well, reading: "You can pay one gold to evade Goblins, Hobgoblins and Orcs" => Well, there was an Orc character in the Adventure expansion, but this one did not even exist in German, so we were wondering what this Orc referred to, until we realised that it was the Ogre ;)
Also, the Rogue Character was a strange one: He could add 1 to his die roll whenever encountering the Witch, the Warlock or the Sorceress... We found this strange since the Sorceress was a playable character and it seemed kind of absurd, that certain characters get a combat bonus when fighting against other certain characters, but we played it that way. When I read the English version I realised it was the "Enchantress" (in the City!) and not the Sorceress (character) that was referred to in the Rogues ability ;)

But the most dreaded character was the knight. Despite having poor stats in the German version (2 strenght, 3 craft... German characters have different stats than the International ones, took me years to realise this!), he seemed to be the most overpowered character (well, despite the Prophetess, maybe). The German card reads: Whenever you fight against another player, if your total combat score is less than your opponents, your combat score is raised to the value of your opponent => This made him invincible in normal PvP! When I checked the English card later I realised that it referred to the Combat strenght (Total Strenght + Weapon) and not to the Combat score (Total Strenght + Weapon + Die Roll)...;)


Tell me about it.In our version, the 2nd edition Troll was so lame. A Strength 3 and Craft 1 character with the only benefit of being safe in the Crags.

I previewed some of the familiar characters in the 4th edition and I like how they tweaked them. The Prophetess was powered down a bit, The Troll became a resilient powerhouse of strength and they upgraded the Priest.

All characters have varying amounts of fate, some differ in starting lives. Nice!
 
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Oh then the German version does not seem to be the only one with wrong stats Troll is supposed to have Strenght 6 in 2nd as well as in 4th edition. These are the stats of the 2nd edition characters (German Base set):

Sorceress: 2/4
Monk: 2/4 in German - 2/3 in English
Knight: 2/3 in German - 3/3 in English
Wizard: 2/5
Ghoul: 2/4
Ranger: 3/3
Dwarf: 3/3
Troll: 6/1
Satyr: 2/4
Barbarian: 6/1 in German - 5/1 in English
Necromancer: 3/3
Halfling: 2/3
Prophetess: 2/4
Pilgrim: 2/4
Hobgoblin: 3/3
Gnome: 2/4
Thief: 3/3
Priest: 2/4
Philosopher: 2/4
Gladiator: 4/1 in German - 4/2 in English
Elf: 3/3 in German - 3/4 in English
Rogue: 3/3
Minstrel: 2/4
Assassin: 5/1 in German - 3/3 in English
Druid: 3/4 in German - 2/4 in English
Merchant: 2/3
Amazon: 4/2
Warrior: 4/3

The Red ones are those with differences. Some of those make huge differences. The Assassin was a pure Killer machine! I loved him this way ! Also I welcomed the additional point of strenght of the Druid. I think his ability back in the 2nd edition was not so strong (not that many alignment specific cards) and he did not have his spell ability back then, so strenght 3 made him an acceptable fighter. As for the other characters, I prefer the english stats... It took me years to realise the German stats were different, we always played the game with those before. Maybe it was intentional? There were some intentional changes in the German edition such as that there were no Talisman cards in the Adventure deck. Who knows...
 
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