Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Summoner Wars: Master Set» Forums » General

Subject: Just played my first game. Only one drawback. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
John Jackes
msg tools
What a hit! I have just played Summoner wars for the first time and I am thrilled. A fast paced, easy rules, very interesting decisions and a bit to dice make all this great game. I had the Goblins and my opponent have the Vargath.

Everything went fine. I had a blast. Strategies hidden (these shamans are very good) and short play time.

I have only one drawback. The standard starting position. I can't stand the fact that if we play the same match up again, the board would have the same starting line.

Are there any official rulings to prevent that? Are there geek opinions to change it?

What a great game and I recommend it to everyone.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Berger
United States
Round Lake
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I guess the question is - what would you hope to accomplish with different starting setups? The real way to have a different setup is to play a different faction... There are 240 different matchups if all you consider is the two factions being played (ignoring which player is playing which faction)*. I would think it would take a minimum of 5 matches as each side before that particular matchup got stale...

*and assuming that it's not too early in the morning for me to do simple math
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
The Compulsive Completist
United States
Indiana
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have never played witht he starting set up. It would be interesting to begin with the prescribed cards but let the players alternate placing their pieces on the board. As "level" as the game is I am sure that would could cause more problems that good.

Chess has survived a bit with one standard set up I'm sure Summoner Wars can follow suit. There are plenty of factions to keep you busy.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul DeStefano
United States
Long Island
New York
flag msg tools
designer
badge
It's a Zendrum. www.zendrum.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't know why - I'm a HUGE fan of modular boards, but this never bothered me.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Jackes
msg tools
to Chris.

I want to enhance the replay ability of the game using the random setups. Battlelore has standard setup but then it has many missions. And after that an expansion pop up that gave many cards for each line setup and you could draw off them. Almost endless play.

How come there are 240 different match-ups? Assuming only the master set, there are 6 factions so 15 match ups. Lets say 30 if we play both sides. Yes, 30 games are a lot but we are talking here of a game that can be played at approximately 45 minutes and you can play 2-3 games in a row. The game itself has a nice replay ability due to the card drawing but it there was a dynamic set up if would go up high.

-

to Hockey.

You have never played with the standard set up? So how each player gets their forces in play? One by one? This isn't good for the first player. So 1st player 1 card, 2nd 2, 1st 2, 2nd 1? (or go for 2 till the final player puts one)

(edited) And you use the predefined creatures on the starting cards I suppose.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Berger
United States
Round Lake
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jackes wrote:
How come there are 240 different match-ups?


There are 16 different factions.

I keep editing this post to fix my math, but yeah, that matters which of the 2 sides you are, but it doesn't take into account mirror matches which are perfectly valid. I guess combinatorials are my downfall.

I can see wanting to mess with the starting setup as a variant after you've played every matchup a few times. Or even if you've played each side at least a couple of times, regardless of which side you're up against. I don't see the point of it myself, since the starting setup is part of the personality of each faction and defines the framework within which your strategy, tactics, and luck play out. But I don't think it would be a horrible variant. I just wouldn't start messing with it after one play...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carthoris Pyramidos
United States
Centennial
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
setup by summoner
I've been wondering whether the setups are faction-specific, or (as seems more likely) summoner-specific. The latter would mean that forthcoming "second summoners" would give more setup variety.

By the way, I don't think that the game currently suffers from the setup constraint any more than chess does.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Jackes
msg tools
arkayn wrote:
Jackes wrote:
How come there are 240 different match-ups?


There are 16 different factions.


Ah I was talking about the basic master set only, with 6 factions.

I am not gonna mess it up after my first play. I want to play each faction at least twice before I start doing this. Or, now that I am thinking about it, just replay the match for once and then try it with a random set up. I don't know how to determine it, but we will try.

I have seen that there are three expansions listed for the master set and many concerning the previous versions. Are all these balanced? Can you play with a master set deck vs an old version deck?

Also, have you tried mixing and creating your own deck as you like?

Yes, I know, many questions after just one play. But I am so excited and started thinking things.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Berger
United States
Round Lake
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jackes wrote:
I have seen that there are three expansions listed for the master set and many concerning the previous versions. Are all these balanced? Can you play with a master set deck vs an old version deck?


There are a few threads in this forum about what all is available for Summoner Wars. If you like the game, you're probably going to break down and get all of it eventually. Basically:

Guild Dwarves + Cave Goblins
Phoenix Elves + Tundra Orcs
Vanguard
Fallen Kingdom
Jungle Elves
Cloaks
Filth
Mercenaries

Plus there are reinforcement packs for every faction except Swamp Orcs, Vargath, Filth, and Mercenaries, sold with 2 factions per pack. The reinforcements for those other four factions are coming soon.

The factions are all pretty well balanced, though there are some bad matchups (Swamp Orcs vs. Guild Dwarves is going to be really hard for the Orcs... plus some others). Some factions are considered to be on the high end of the power curve (specifically Guild Dwarves), while others are considered weaker (Vanguard and Fallen Kingdom), but I think a lot of it comes down to being "easier" and "harder" to learn, not necessarily better and worse. Also, Vanguard, IMHO, are not great with their base deck but shine with some reinforcements. One of their 3 base champions is probably the worst champion in the game (opinions may vary, of course), and just swapping her out helps a lot.

Quote:
Also, have you tried mixing and creating your own deck as you like?

Yes, that's one of the reasons that I don't think the starting setup is very constraining. You may start from a known position, but being able to tweak what's in your deck (the rules for deckbuilding are strict, but still allow for some interesting variations), along with trying different tactics and dealing with luck of the draw, means that two games are not very likely to play out similarly.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Sitz
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Even given the exact same faction match-up, the game will start differently based on a few different things. The first is which side actually goes first. Next is which guys you actually choose to attack; there aren't that many match-ups where everyone agrees on the "best" move. Even making the same movement choices, the luck of the die roll can affect the outcome of that turn; for example, let's say you take two 1 AV attacks: there's a 44% chance of getting two hits, a 44% chance of only 1, and an 11% chance of missing both. As soon as one player takes his first draw step, the game will flow a bit differently based on the timing of when he gets his walls, certain events, etc.

With as much luck and change as there is in the game, I rather like the static starting setup. It helps get games started quickly.

(I don't think it's 240. It's 15 + 14 + 13... to +1 and then +16 if you allow mirrors, so 17*8 = 136 Although I guess if you take out mirrors and bring it to 120 match-ups, and add in the notion of starting faction mattering, that's 240. Even with just a MS and starting faction mattering, that's 30 unique starts.)
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carthoris Pyramidos
United States
Centennial
Colorado
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jackes wrote:
I have seen that there are three expansions listed for the master set and many concerning the previous versions. Are all these balanced? Can you play with a master set deck vs an old version deck?

The packaging and paper gameboards of the starter sets have changed, and one Guild Dwarf champion card was corrected, but other than that, there really hasn't been any versioning, just reprints. All of the factions published so far are interplayable.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.