There is no Dana, only Zuul
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http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascounty/index.ssf/2012/08/...

Quote:
U.S. District Court Judge Garr M. King on Monday sentenced both women to five years probation, saying he was impressed with their efforts at rehabilitation and that incarceration would only interrupt their progress.

...

According to court documents, Sykes Caudle and Westhusing drove to a Rivermark Community Credit Union branch in Gresham on Oct. 18. As in the later case, one person went in with a note while the other waited outside. That time, the robbers made a haul of $1,380 – coincidentally just $10 more than on Dec. 6. The case remained unsolved until investigators noticed a resemblance on surveillance tapes.

Sykes Caudle said she hoped people would understand that desperation from mounting debt pushed her toward a bad decision.

"It wasn't something I did out of greed or to hurt anybody," she said. "I really hope that teller wasn't hurt in any way."


I'd like to see criminals reformed, but this just seems...pathetic.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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I am seing not evidance of reform, am I m issing something?
 
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There is no Dana, only Zuul
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I'm not either, but I wasn't sure if I was missing something. They apologized, and said they feel bad but were driven to it...twice. I don't get how the punishment really fits the crime. If you say you feel bad, then good enough?
 
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"that's a smith and wesson, and you've had your six"
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We already have too may US citizens in prison as it is. Maybe we need to stop using life altering punishments in every single case, and save those for the most heinous of crimes.

Aren't we a little tired of our prison society yet? I mean, hell how much of our tax dollars are going to keep every little crime locked away?
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Boaty McBoatface
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MWChapel wrote:
We already have too may US citizens in prison as it is. Maybe we need to stop using life altering punishments in every single case, and save those for the most heinous of crimes.

Aren't we a little tired of our prison society yet? I mean, hell how much of our tax dollars are going to keep every little crime locked away?


I think in this case I wouod disagree, it was robbery not smoking dope. I would agree we should not lock people up for crimes against themselves, but we should lock them up for crimes against others (where the crime is of sufficiant severity).
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slatersteven wrote:
(where the crime is of sufficiant severity).


What severity is that? Where reparations cannot be made? In this case, they can be. What is your defining crime for "punishment" that includes locking them away, ruining the rest of their lives, and taking otherwise productive members of society, and creating non-productive members of society, permanently.

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Justice is supposed to be "blind" - the same punishments for the same crimes. This should be independent of whether the perpetrators really really wish they hadn't been caught, since it's a common sentiment.

Or is it ok to rob someone if you're short of money? This might prove to be a popular excuse.

@MWChapel
Of course you're right that incarceration in the US isn't likely to actually rehabilitate anyone. But while that's a good argument for changing a lot of local practice, any such change should be applied evenly across all criminals.
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Boaty McBoatface
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MWChapel wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
(where the crime is of sufficiant severity).


What severity is that? Where reparations cannot be made? In this case, they can be. What is your defining crime for "punishment" that includes locking them away, ruining the rest of their lives, and taking otherwise productive members of society, and creating non-productive members of society, permanently.



No, where the crime has been one where fear or threats have been used or where life has been endangerd. That is what I consider of sufficant severity to warrent a custodial sentance. A crime which shows utter disrespect for not just socieites values but the membrs of that society. Just saying sorry and paying reperations after you are caught (and I know a few who have used to I am sorry defence) does not indicate that they are not criminaly inclinded (and in everey case I have seen they do go on to break, the same, law again) We can all show remorse when we are caught.

By the way if they were productive members of society how come they turned to crime? What exaclty have they done other then leave college and break the law? At best one of them wa a part time, cerimonial, gaurd.
 
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slatersteven wrote:


No, where the crime has been one where fear or threats have been used or where life has been endangerd.


My life is endangered every day on the freeway by people cutting me off, or making bad turns, texting on their phones. Those are in most time deliberate actions that endanger peoples lives. Should we lock them up too?
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Boaty McBoatface
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MWChapel wrote:
slatersteven wrote:


No, where the crime has been one where fear or threats have been used or where life has been endangerd.


My life is endangered every day on the freeway by people cutting me off, or making bad turns, texting on their phones. Those are in most time deliberate actions that endanger peoples lives. Should we lock them up too?


Actualy I think yes, I belive we are far too leniant with driving that engangers life.
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slatersteven wrote:


Actualy I think yes, I belive we are far too leniant with driving that engangers life.


Then I guess we'll just have to disagree in this space. I think the punishment levied by the judge in this case was actually in the best interest of society. A judgement that should be used more often than not.

IMHO
 
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We don't know - because the article doesn't say - what the judge saw and heard during the trials and sentencing hearings. We just have no basis to evaluate his decision.
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chaendlmaier wrote:

Man, I either have to take the bus or ride my bike on the scenic track along the river. How I wish I had a car to experience the daily thrill of almost getting killed.


Just bring your bike to Austin, I think this year we've already had a half dozen or more deaths of bicyclists...If you really want the thrill.
 
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Andrew Foerster
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Funny that the incidents that incited this outrage are when two women, twice, made off with about $1400.

1) That's, obviously, not really a great salary: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=stats-show-...

2) Pretty much any cost involved wouldn't be worth what they made off with. The bank's lawyers, incarceration, etc. would all pretty much amount to more, way more, than $2800.

3) Why even flag this? Why care? I mean, you have whole institutions of people who are bigger and, I daresay, more overt fraud on our society without even the most remote concern of consequence. But I guess that's white collar crime and we only really want to go after the petty stuff. Something about bigger fish ....
 
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andrewfoerster wrote:
Funny that the incidents that incited this outrage are when two women, twice, made off with about $1400.

1) That's, obviously, not really a great salary: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=stats-show-...

2) Pretty much any cost involved wouldn't be worth what they made off with. The bank's lawyers, incarceration, etc. would all pretty much amount to more, way more, than $2800.

3) Why even flag this? Why care? I mean, you have whole institutions of people who are bigger and, I daresay, more overt fraud on our society without even the most remote concern of consequence. But I guess that's white collar crime and we only really want to go after the petty stuff. Something about bigger fish ....


I partialy agree, we should be tougheer and more active about white collar crime. But that does not mean we should not treat bank ribbery as what it is. I wonder if they had not been collage graduates whether there would have been this leaniancy or rush to justify it.
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Wait. Robberies in Portland? I thought that place was paradise on earth.

Anyway, the judge apparently found the following persuasive: they expressed remorse (probably about being caught), they were both employed, they were both taking college classes, and they both were getting professional help for mental and emotional problems.
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Christopher Seguin
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There is a judge here in Medina County (Honorable Chris Collier) that runs a drug sentencing rehab type of program that actually keeps petty drug users our of jail, except for the most onerous of cases.

Essentially, if you get caught for possession/using, etc, and it is your first time, he sentences you to "drug court" - which is essentially his courtroom, after hours, whereby he expects you to report to him weekly, submit to random drug tests, and participate in other such "say no to drugs" activities over an extended period of time (most likely longer than an actual prison stay). The guilty are given this choice, or to spend time in the slammer. Most take Judge Collier's drug court. If he sees you in his courtroom (outside of the program) more than once, though, then you go to prison.

Not surprisingly, most of the individuals who qualify choose the longer-lasting "drug court" over a shorter time in jail, probably because the people he sees really don't want to be habitual drug users, and want some help. Something jails usually won't or can't provide.

Also not surprisingly, the recidivism rate is very, very low after time spent in his program. As a result, we don't have much of a drug (or serious crime) problem here in Medina County like we do in some other counties of similar size here in Ohio.

His program does two things - keeps the prison space open for more serious, dangerous criminals, and helps non-violent, non-pusher, drug users get off of drugs. Everyone wins - taxpayers, citizens, courthouses, and jails. I wish more county courtrooms had similar programs.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Sky Knight X wrote:
andrewfoerster wrote:

3) Why even flag this? Why care? I mean, you have whole institutions of people who are bigger and, I daresay, more overt fraud on our society without even the most remote concern of consequence. But I guess that's white collar crime and we only really want to go after the petty stuff. Something about bigger fish ....


...and kids are starving in Africa! Why care about white collar crime when kids are starving in Africa?


Becasue it's not against the law, we wwe are talking about law enforcement
 
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xilan wrote:
I don't get how the punishment really fits the crime.


I think the problem is right there.
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Damian
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slatersteven wrote:
Sky Knight X wrote:
andrewfoerster wrote:

3) Why even flag this? Why care? I mean, you have whole institutions of people who are bigger and, I daresay, more overt fraud on our society without even the most remote concern of consequence. But I guess that's white collar crime and we only really want to go after the petty stuff. Something about bigger fish ....


...and kids are starving in Africa! Why care about white collar crime when kids are starving in Africa?


Becasue it's not against the law, we wwe are talking about law enforcement

Maybe we should outlaw hunger.
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damiangerous wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Sky Knight X wrote:
andrewfoerster wrote:

3) Why even flag this? Why care? I mean, you have whole institutions of people who are bigger and, I daresay, more overt fraud on our society without even the most remote concern of consequence. But I guess that's white collar crime and we only really want to go after the petty stuff. Something about bigger fish ....


...and kids are starving in Africa! Why care about white collar crime when kids are starving in Africa?


Becasue it's not against the law, we wwe are talking about law enforcement

Maybe we should outlaw hunger.


Not sure how, but it would be a nice idea if we could make it work.
 
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