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Subject: And in other news... rss

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SIMON WRAY
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In order to bring some more interesting topics of discussion to the fore (just don't go there!), I've been looking at some of the potential combos coming to light from the pool of cards seen to date.

NBN
"We control the horizontal..."

I'm getting drawn into the NBN Corp cards and how they will the riff off each other to build not just a strong identify, but also a viable strategy;




 


With these cards I'd be looking to set-up some form of big win, where I'm either scoring lots of Agenda quickly, gaining a Credit windfall or dealing out a good amount of damage.

The simple aim being to install Breaking News in a Remote Server, behind Matrix Analyser, and advanced it just once.

This is a typical lure for the Runner and presents all sorts of quandaries - the single piece of ICE and 1 Advanced something give an impression of weakness; the Server has a minimum of protection so a Runner often feels he should run it, but if it does contain a trap then only 1 Advancement counter won't hurt the Runner too much, so it doesn't appear too risky.

As the Corp, you want the Runner to Run this Server. In doing so you can score the Agenda out of turn, thereby gaining a Click advantage and increasing your tempo.

However, the setup also works if the Runner doesn't take the bait and you have to Advance and score the Agenda during your own turn. Try to do so when you have Psychographics and another Advance-able card in play; you can score the first Breaking News then play Psychographics to gain 2 extra Advances.

In isolation this isn't great, but with Matrix Analyser giving you a good source for extra Tags (i.e. Advancements via Psychographics) and Anonymous Tip gaining extra cards to help set-up a big pay-off, there's suddenly a synergy appearing amongst the NBN faction cards. Then you can envisage scenarios where you could be gaining 4, 5 or 6 Advancements via Psychographics and suddenly be scoring bigger Agendas or using other Assets to gain vital Credits or deal damage.

I like how this is a subtly different take on Tags; NBN want to expose the Runner and his illicit activity so they can feed off the public reaction and advance their own agenda, not necessarily as a means to flatlining the Runner.

Also, the cards and their related strategy appears balanced - the Corp can score out of turn, or score in a single turn, but these are small Agenda and you require good timing and/or combos to get more out of it.

(Thanks to Byron for putting up the card images)
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David Etherton
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Revenant wrote:


 



If you put multiple inline images on the same line you can save some vertical space. (I made it 'small' not 'original' to save even more space as an example)

-Dave
 
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Dusty
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Unfortunately the Corporation can not score Agendas running the runner's turn. It says so on page 14 under Scoring Agendas.

Quote:
The only times the Corporation can score an agenda is right before his turn begins, or after he completes an action.


However a bunch of the other combos are valid and look like good strategies.
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Gilles
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NBN seems indeed to be quite a fast and sneaky faction, especially with AstroScript Pilot Program.

And Matrix Analyser in conjunction with a Ghost Branch is also a quite fun combination.

But keep in mind that the Corp cannot score agendas during the Runners turn.
He may only do so at the beginning of his turn, or after each of his actions. (see timing structure on page 32)

Edit: Ninja'ed by Dusty...
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James W
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Also, if you were able to score Private Security Force early:



then the Runner needs to be hyper-aware of being and remaining tagged.

Exploring the different combinations is going to so fun.
 
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Philip Morton
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I'm not actually sure about Private Security Force being that good; since the runner can just spend a click to draw a card and make up the damage you're dealing, and the runner has more clicks than you, it doesn't seem like a good use of actions unless it means the difference between flatlining and not flatlining. Or if the Runner takes so long to lose the tags that you run him out of deck, I guess...

I know a similar card existed in the original Netrunner; did it get any use in constructed play?

The NBN card that looks the best to me so far is that 3/2 Agenda with a rebate. It's effectively a 2/2, although you can't score the first one out of hand, and it can let you use Breaking News's tags while scoring IT out of hand. I suppose I'm glad of the 3x card limit, or I know what all my Agendas would be...
 
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Dusty
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Really Private Security Force is a threat that reads, "Win the game if the runner is tagged and has two or less cards in their hand at the start of your turn."

Now imagine if the Weyland Consortium just scored Private Security Force. Now the runner needs to prevent Tags at all cost because if the Corporation ever plays a Scorched Earth while you are tagged then you are dead. Not much can help you against 6 meat damage.

Scorched Earth: www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/netrunner/android-netrunner-car...
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Philip Morton
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dragon_eater wrote:
Really Private Security Force is a threat that reads, "Win the game if the runner is tagged and has two or less cards in their hand at the start of your turn."

Now imagine if the Weyland Consortium just scored Private Security Force. Now the runner needs to prevent Tags at all cost because if the Corporation ever plays a Scorched Earth while you are tagged then you are dead. Not much can help you against 6 meat damage.

Scorched Earth is the power card in that situation, though, not Private Security Force. In the original game, I can't see how you wouldn't have been better off using Punitive Counterstrike to make up the final damage than a card that takes an extra action and requires you to have previously scored a minimally-helpful (prior to that point) Agenda that telegraphed your intentions.

Maybe Private Security Force will be necessary to force the flatline in the base set, if there are no other sources of damage, but then it still seems like a bad card that's just waiting for something better to replace it. I guess just the threat forces the Runner to play a little more cautiously, but it seems like if you're playing against tags (and Weyland in particular) you're playing with fire if you EVER end your turn with tags, since a pair of Scorched Earth, while more expensive, has the benefit of surprise.

Also, while I don't think we've seen any yet, there were quite a few cards in the original game that prevented meat damage in varying amounts, so I wouldn't be too surprised if there WAS a way to survive a turn of six meat damage.
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Noah D

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For example:
http://www.netrunneronline.com/cards/armored-fridge/

One of these, and you could absorb 6 meat damage without discarding a single card...
 
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Edwin Twentier
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You're comparing cards from the original to current, my guess is that we'll see modifications of Damage Prevention, but seeing a) how broken some sources of mitigation were in the original; and b) what's already made its way out; I don't think it's gonna be quite as easy anymore.
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Enon Sci
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Edwin20er wrote:
You're comparing cards from the original to current, my guess is that we'll see modifications of Damage Prevention, but seeing a) how broken some sources of mitigation were in the original; and b) what's already made its way out; I don't think it's gonna be quite as easy anymore.


My guess: we'll see damage prevention fall under a singular faction's pervue. My money is on this being a specialty of the Criminal faction, seeing as how:

FFG Game Description wrote:
Criminals like Gabriel Santiago are in it for the credits. They get paid for the secrets they uncover. Consummate professionals, these runners believe in taking as few risks as possible, and never the ones they consider unnecessary.


Though that could be interpreted in many different ways (e.g. cards that expose the Corp's face-down cards).
 
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Beyer
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The threat of On-call solo team, which was the equivalent card in Netrunner, although it gave three agenda points, is that the runner now has to consider his hand size as well as the risk of getting tagged whenever his turn ends. It's not a direct threat, but something you always have to keep in mind. The more small things the runner has to keep in mind, while the corp can just sit back and wait for a mistake, the better. If you include cards like Scorched Earth and the equivalent of Punitive counterstrike, the runner has to be aware of the possibility of taking 5 damage in a single turn as soon as the Corp draws the counterstrike.

The draw back of this card is the 2 agenda points, rather than three.
 
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Spyder Murphy
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On-Call solo team, from what I recall, wasn't used in constructed play. Neither was it's rarer brother Strike Force Kali (Diff 6, 3 Agenda, @:2 Meat Damage if tagged).
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Adam Rouse
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I haven't played the game yet, but it seems like you don't actually have to use Provate Security Force for it to be useful. The threat of it means your opponent will want to make more draw actions than usual, which means more useful actions may be passed up.
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Agent 57
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Exactly, a common problem when evaluating cards is attempting to do so purely by the stats and not by the psychological impact they create or the pressure they bring to bear.

In this case Private security Force is going to make the runner need to save extra clicks after runs to remove tags and draw cards. Things that without that scored they may have been willing to let slide. This card is about tempo disruption. Every time they are taking an action to remove tags or draw cards solely to protect themselves is an extra run they are not making which means you are gaining time to score more agendas.

The biggest drawback here is that multiple PSF's don't "stack." Because each costs a click and there is no limit after your first score you do not increase the pressure on the runner an equal amount because of the effect, but just the same pressure of moving closer to your own victory condition of 7 agenda points.

Now if there is ever a card which forces the runner to "discard" clicks that you can hit them with on their turn... well that will be a serious situation for them to face.
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B C Z
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Agent 57 wrote:
Now if there is ever a card which forces the runner to "discard" clicks that you can hit them with on their turn... well that will be a serious situation for them to face.


Which is why it shouldn't happen.
 
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Revenant wrote:

The simple aim being to install Breaking News in a Remote Server, behind Matrix Analyser, and advanced it just once.

This is a typical lure for the Runner and presents all sorts of quandaries - the single piece of ICE and 1 Advanced something give an impression of weakness; the Server has a minimum of protection so a Runner often feels he should run it, but if it does contain a trap then only 1 Advancement counter won't hurt the Runner too much, so it doesn't appear too risky.

As the Corp, you want the Runner to Run this Server. In doing so you can score the Agenda out of turn, thereby gaining a Click advantage and increasing your tempo.


One does not REZ Agenda, one SCORES them:

Scoring Agendas– When the number of advancement
tokens on an agenda is equal to or higher than its advancement
requirement, the agenda is fully advanced and the
Corporation can score it. The only times the Corporation can
score an agenda is right before his turn begins, or after he
completes an action
.
To score an agenda, the Corporation turns it faceup and
places it in his score area, resolving any conditional abilities
on the agenda that use the language “When you score.” The
Corporation cannot score an agenda until it is fully advanced.
Scoring an agenda does not cost a click and is not an action.
While an agenda is in the Corporation’s score area, it is active
and adds its agenda points to his score.

So this doesn't work. You cannot score an Agenda during a Run.


Quote:
I like how this is a subtly different take on Tags; NBN want to expose the Runner and his illicit activity so they can feed off the public reaction and advance their own agenda, not necessarily as a means to flatlining the Runner.

This I certainly agree with.

Quote:
Also, the cards and their related strategy appears balanced - the Corp can score out of turn, or score in a single turn, but these are small Agenda and you require good timing and/or combos to get more out of it.

(Thanks to Byron for putting up the card images)


Much obliged, recommend putting your image tags all on one line in order to make them appear all on one line.
 
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And if the tags aren't powering the fast advance fast enough, you can always subcontract some surprise accidental construction work in the Runner's neighborhood out to Weyland....
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Philip Morton
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ffaristocrat wrote:
And if the tags aren't powering the fast advance fast enough, you can always subcontract some surprise accidental construction work in the Runner's neighborhood out to Weyland....

I love the image of NBN doing this off Breaking News.

Runner sitting at his console, TV going in the background...

"We interrupt this program to bring you an unfolding story. A massive explosion this afternoon destroyed several buildings near the corner of Chestnut and 51st..."

"Huh? But that's my--" *BOOM*
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Enon Sci
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byronczimmer wrote:
The only times the Corporation can
score an agenda is right before his turn begins


By far the worst written sentence in the entire manual. "Before his turn begins" ?? Of course, they mean before the first click is taken on his turn, between clicks and after all the clicks are completed, but a literalist (i.e. non-native English speaker) might really be scratching their head.

On a related note, can the corp really play non-click based paid abilities in-between the actions of the Runner? Crazy, I don't remember Netrunner playing like that (though my memories are scant and faint).
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Yes, you've always been able to do out of turn abilities. The turn priority is a bit different now.

Current player does whatever effects they want.
Opposing player has the chance to play abilities.
If the opposing player played something, the current player gets another chance to play abilities.

Then, either way, we're done.

The Runner definitely had waaaaay more out of turn abilities in classic. The main thing the corp did in between Runner actions was rez cards.
 
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Philip Morton
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Anarchosyn wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
The only times the Corporation can
score an agenda is right before his turn begins


By far the worst written sentence in the entire manual. "Before his turn begins" ?? Of course, they mean before the first click is taken on his turn, between clicks and after all the clicks are completed, but a literalist (i.e. non-native English speaker) might really be scratching their head.

"Before your first click of a turn" wouldn't be the same thing, if it means after your forced start-of-turn draw. If you're out of deck, but the Matrix Analyzer let you advance an agenda to completion on the Runner's turn, it would mean the difference between winning and losing.

"At the start of his turn" might be equivalent, though; not sure why they didn't go with that.

Quote:
On a related note, can the corp really play non-click based paid abilities in-between the actions of the Runner? Crazy, I don't remember Netrunner playing like that (though my memories are scant and faint).

Quick scan through a card list:

City Surveillance kind of worked like that.

I'm not sure if Vapor Ops's "remove a counter to gain a bit" effect was usable on the runner turn.

Otherwise, I'm not seeing anything (in the base set) for the Corp with activated abilities that could be used on the runner turn.
 
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Anarchosyn wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
The only times the Corporation can
score an agenda is right before his turn begins


By far the worst written sentence in the entire manual. "Before his turn begins" ?? Of course, they mean before the first click is taken on his turn, between clicks and after all the clicks are completed, but a literalist (i.e. non-native English speaker) might really be scratching their head.


Really?

Runner declares turn over
Corp can score Agenda
Corp player declares turn starts
Corp takes forced draw
Corp can score Agenda
Corp takes first discretionary click
Corp can score Agenda
Corp takes second discretionary click
Corp can score Agenda
Corp takes third discretionary click
Corp can score Agenda
Corp declares turn over

 
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Enon Sci
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byronczimmer wrote:
Anarchosyn wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
The only times the Corporation can
score an agenda is right before his turn begins


By far the worst written sentence in the entire manual. "Before his turn begins" ?? Of course, they mean before the first click is taken on his turn, between clicks and after all the clicks are completed, but a literalist (i.e. non-native English speaker) might really be scratching their head.


Really?

Runner declares turn over
Corp can score Agenda




That's still within the Corp's turn.

I miss your point, or you're missing mine.

*Edit: See below. However, it is still within the Corps turn seeing as how their is no inbetween deadzone between turns -- if it's not the Runner's turn it's the Corps, not some momentary limbo, and a declaration of the Runner's turn being over is, by definition, the start of the Corp's turn.

Chrondeath wrote:

"Before your first click of a turn" wouldn't be the same thing, if it means after your forced start-of-turn draw. If you're out of deck, but the Matrix Analyzer let you advance an agenda to completion on the Runner's turn, it would mean the difference between winning and losing.



Ahh, yes. Now I get where you're coming from. Despite my quibble that this is still within the Corp's turn if it's in anybody's turn, I used to consider the Runner and Corp as having four actions a piece, just with the Corp's first being a mandatory draw. This was a contrivance I built up to learn the rules back in the 90s, finding it easier to read symmetry into what the various players were allotted. The distinction between the two models was essentially moot, but considering the draw a "click" is where my inability to make a distinction came from. Ok, all clear.
 
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Chrondeath wrote:

City Surveillance kind of worked like that.

I'm not sure if Vapor Ops's "remove a counter to gain a bit" effect was usable on the runner turn.

Otherwise, I'm not seeing anything (in the base set) for the Corp with activated abilities that could be used on the runner turn.


City Surveillance could be rezzed at any time as special ability but it could also be rezzed in response to the runner drawing a card.

Vapor Ops' cash out ability could indeed be used during the Runner's turn, usually right before the Runner accessed it. You could advance Vapor Ops and once you got enough counters on it, use its ability to move them onto an agenda you just installed to score it. If the runner got to it first, you could get all the money you invested back.
 
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