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Subject: Corp Upgrade card configurations in Remote Servers? rss

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Enon Sci
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Ok, I'm confused (and just Cntrl+F'd through the PDF to make sure I wasn't missing anything):

According to the rules:

1) Upgrades are ONLY installed below (i.e. The Root of) the server for central servers. In remote servers, they're installed like Assets or Agendas (this is borne out by a lack of specificity in the rules; all references to upgrades being installed below are specifically tied to Central Servers).

2)
Rules wrote:
Upgrades
Upgrades are improvements to a server that provide the
Corporation with a wide variety of benefits and bonuses.
The Corporation installs upgrades in remote servers or the
roots of central servers. Upgrades are the only card type that
can be installed in the root of a central server. An upgrade is
not active until it is rezzed by paying credits equal to its rez cost
(12).

There is no limit to the number of upgrades that can be
installed in a server


So, in a remote server, how would this look? If they're not installed in the root, i.e. below the server, they're just stacked on top, or to the side, right? With no hypothetical limit, how would 4+ upgrades and 1 asset be placed on the table? One big stack? Side by side seems like it would incur space issues (but, to not do so would obscure what is present).

Looking through the manual (again, due to traveling, I've only had access to the pdf via my phone till right now), I'm seeing the only visual displays involve one Asset/Agenda and one upgrade, and they appear side by side, but this very well could be done for image clarity and not represent how they're supposed to sit on the table.

All that said, this is a minor concern, but ultimately I'm just curious if I missed something. I'm adult enough to figure out my own method, but until finding this thread on the official forum, I had assumed all servers had roots and all upgrades were installed in them. Do the rules explicitly state a structuring method? If not, I'll probably just do rows of two card columns, but space will definitely be a concern now that I know data forts can grow in both directions.

P.S. Taking my example of 1 asset and 4+ upgrades further, how would this relate to "card encounter order" in a remote server? Let us assume one of the upgrades is a trap of some sort, would it be left to the runner to decide the order of these non-stacked cards?

*Edit: For those that don't like embedded links, here's that official thread's URL more explicitly --> http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?e... (where Mark Sheppard/Romo Lampkin plays the role of my enlightener in today's performance).
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James W
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Anarchosyn wrote:
Ok, I'm confused (and just Cntrl+F'd through the PDF to make sure I wasn't missing anything):

According to the rules:

1) Upgrades are ONLY installed below (i.e. The Root of) the server for central servers. In remote servers, they're installed like Assets or Agendas (this is borne out by a lack of specificity in the rules; all references to upgrades being installed below are specifically tied to Central Servers).

2)
Rules wrote:
Upgrades
Upgrades are improvements to a server that provide the
Corporation with a wide variety of benefits and bonuses.
The Corporation installs upgrades in remote servers or the
roots of central servers. Upgrades are the only card type that
can be installed in the root of a central server. An upgrade is
not active until it is rezzed by paying credits equal to its rez cost
(12).

There is no limit to the number of upgrades that can be
installed in a server


So, in a remote server, how would this look? If they're not installed in the root, i.e. below the server, they're just stacked on top, or to the side, right? With no hypothetical limit, how would 4+ upgrades and 1 asset be placed on the table? One big stack? Side by side seems like it would incur space issues (but, to not do so would obscure what is present).

Looking through the manual (again, due to traveling, I've only had access to the pdf via my phone till right now), I'm seeing the only visual displays involve one Asset/Agenda and one upgrade, and they appear side by side, but this very well could be done for image clarity and not represent how they're supposed to sit on the table.

All that said, this is a minor concern, but ultimately I'm just curious if I missed something. Until finding this thread on the official forum, I had assumed all servers had roots and all upgrades were installed in them.

*Edit: here's that official thread http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?e... (where Mark Sheppard/Romo Lampkin plays the role of my enlightener in today's performance).


I can help you work through your confusion but I'm not sure what it is you're asking about.

Anarchosyn wrote:

All that said, this is a minor concern, but ultimately I'm just curious if I missed something. Until finding this thread on the official forum, I had assumed all servers had roots and all upgrades were installed in them.


If this is the actual issue to be discussed, then yes, this is true.

The Root is physically located on the side of the table farthest away from the Runner. The Ice is physically located on the side of the table closest to the Runner.

If this is a Central Server then the Central Server is placed in between the Root and the Ice.

The orientation of the Ice is perpendicular to the Root.

This is a schematic diagram with the Corp seated to the left.


I
ROOT (C.S.) C
E


For each of your Central Servers, you can only install Upgrades and Ice.

For each of your Remote Servers, you can only install Upgrades, (1 Asset OR 1 Agenda), and Ice

Upgrades, agendas and assets are all installed in the Root.

If you have multiple cards installed in your Root, then I would do this:


I
Card3 Card2 Card1 (C.S.) C
E


or overlap them slightly like this making sure to keep the cards visible:


I
Card3rd2rd1 (C.S.) C
E


I'm not sure if that answers your question, though.
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Jeff Lindsay
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Remote servers don't have roots. Everything is installed in the same place. I'd say the only critical points to organization are:
1) It has to be clear all the cards are installed in that remote server
2) It should be clear to the runner how many cards are installed
3) It should be clear which cards have advancement counters, and how many, if any of the cards do.

It's certainly to the corp's advantage to not make positional distinctions between assets/agendas and upgrades.
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James W
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If you have more room horizontally from your point of view then you might even consider doing this which is depicted in the rulebook:


Card1 I
Card3 (C.S.) C
Card3 E


I think as long as it's clear which servers the cards belong to and you don't mix them up, you should decide based on the conditions of the table and whatever you prefer.
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Enon Sci
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Well, my question was more about the remote servers, i.e. those lacking roots.

In simpler terms: having an unlimited number of cards after your ice sounds like it'll get messy. Did I miss something in the rules that specifies how we should lay this out, or is it left to our own ingenuity.

Secondly, if one of my upgrades (or asset) is a trap, and if the cards aren't stacked, does the runner control encounter order? This last bit was edited in after you started to reply.
 
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James W
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Anarchosyn wrote:
Well, my question was more about the remote servers, i.e. those lacking roots.

In simpler terms: having an unlimited number of cards after your ice sounds like it'll get messy. Did I miss something in the rules that specifies how we should lay this out, or is it left to our own ingenuity.

Secondly, if one of my upgrades (or asset) is a trap, and if the cards aren't stacked, does the runner control encounter order? This last bit was edited in after you started to reply.


On page 18, the process is described when the Runner is able to access multiple cards.

The Runner is given the choice of the order in which they will access the cards. The Runner has to be finished accessing one card before moving on the next. Once this is all done, everything remaining (not trashed or stolen) is returned to its original state.
 
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Enon Sci
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Thanks, James (and Jeff)!
 
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Jeff Lindsay
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Yes the runner gets to choose the order in which the cards are accessed.

Once a card is accessed it must be fully resolved before another can be accessed. The runner must access all the cards if they choose to access any.
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Heiko Günther
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IIRC there are upgrades that make the runner jack out before accessing any cards in the data fort (some City Grid?) or modify how the runner may interact with cards installed in the fort (Red Herrings and so forth).

While it is certainly true that the runner may decide freely on the order he accesses those cards, their effects kick in when they do (for example before the runner accesses the first card in that fort or tries to trash some card).

So the runner can very well decide to trash the City Grid first, but only after it had its chance to make him jack out.

Obviously, those rules might have changed in the new edition, as might the cards themselves, in which case consider all of the above maculature.
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B C Z
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The important take-away is this:

1) Only Upgrades can be installed into the central servers (Archive, R&D, HQ), and since those spaces are taken up by other things (discards, draw deck and identity card), you need a place to put those upgrades. Hence 'root'.

2) Any number of Upgrades (within limits listed on the cards for things like regions), and up to 1 of an Agenda OR Asset (unless modified by a card) can be installed in any given Remote Server.

3) If more than one card is installed in a given Remote Server, the Corp should not give ANY information about type of card based on position of those cards. An unrezzed upgrade looks the same as an unrezzed Asset or an unrezzed Agenda. 1 blue-backed card.

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