MIke H
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We have 3 heroes (wildlander, spiritspeaker, Knight). Our wildlander is Tobyn Farslayer, whose ability is +2 damage from a surge if he is 3 spaces or more away. My friend playing Tobyn chose him randomly, not knowing much about the game, and he is upset because while the rest of us have handy abilities, his skill is basically rendered less than useless as soon as he gets a crossbow. Most of the decent ranged weapons already have "surge: +2 damage" that dont even require you to be 3 spaces away. He finds it disheartening. Has anyone else found this or even bothered playing with him? Don't get me wrong, it was nice for a while there, but is basically obsolete fairly quickly.

Secondly, while admitting that we stomped the OL on a couple scenarios, the last we played was the Masquerade ball - spoiler alert for the below material so stop reading if you haven't done it.

In the first encounter, we faced 3 hellhounds he put in the first room and no less than 10 kobolds in the back room besides the vampire lady herself. The one token in the first room was a flesh moulder so needless to say he had all the guests spirited away before we could even get out of the first room. It was totally impossible to get out before he could use his 10 minions with 5 speed each to flip and grab all the guests while adding a couple flesh moulders to the mix for good measure.

The second encounter was just as bad for impossibility. The figure we were chasing ran away well before we could get halfway through the dungeon. The master naga and naga in the second room stopped us for some time thanks to good defensive rolling and the master giant in the hallway just went down as our prey exited the dungeon. We weren't even close. The sense of impossibility right from the outset really ruined the fun for us. Has anyone else found this?

All input appreciated. Thanks!
 
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Andy Mills
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Hopper1 wrote:
We have 3 heroes (wildlander, spiritspeaker, Knight). Our wildlander is Tobyn Farslayer, whose ability is +2 damage from a surge if he is 3 spaces or more away. My friend playing Tobyn chose him randomly, not knowing much about the game, and he is upset because while the rest of us have handy abilities, his skill is basically rendered less than useless as soon as he gets a crossbow. Most of the decent ranged weapons already have "surge: +2 damage" that dont even require you to be 3 spaces away. He finds it disheartening. Has anyone else found this or even bothered playing with him? Don't get me wrong, it was nice for a while there, but is basically obsolete fairly quickly.


Tobin can spend a surge on the weapon ability AND a surge on his hero ability. It's not entirely useless.
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Brent Lloyd
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Hopper1 wrote:
Has anyone else found this?


Yes, Lots.

I just played through a whole campaign and the Heroes only won the first scenario (First Blood) and the first half of one other scenario. They got thrashed in all the other scenarios, not even a chance in many of them.

Our OverLord used huge based monsters to block halls and such which really slowed the Heroes. All of the scenaarios we played were "race" scenarios and the OL won every single scenario without even trying very hard.

Peace
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Justin Smith

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Hopper1 wrote:
We have 3 heroes (wildlander, spiritspeaker, Knight). Our wildlander is Tobyn Farslayer, whose ability is +2 damage from a surge if he is 3 spaces or more away. My friend playing Tobyn chose him randomly, not knowing much about the game, and he is upset because while the rest of us have handy abilities, his skill is basically rendered less than useless as soon as he gets a crossbow. Most of the decent ranged weapons already have "surge: +2 damage" that dont even require you to be 3 spaces away. He finds it disheartening. Has anyone else found this or even bothered playing with him? Don't get me wrong, it was nice for a while there, but is basically obsolete fairly quickly


Crossbow still has a 1/6 chance of rolling double surges. Granted, you might have other abilities that can make use of the surges but it is not terrible.

Also, once you reach Act 2 and get a 3 dice bow, you will be rolling lots of surges to make advantage of it. I think there is about a 37.5% chance of 2+ surges on a Blue/Yellow/Yellow Latari Longbow roll.

Quote:
Secondly, while admitting that we stomped the OL on a couple scenarios, the last we played was the Masquerade ball - spoiler alert for the below material so stop reading if you haven't done it.

In the first encounter, we faced 3 hellhounds he put in the first room and no less than 10 kobolds in the back room besides the vampire lady herself. The one token in the first room was a flesh moulder so needless to say he had all the guests spirited away before we could even get out of the first room. It was totally impossible to get out before he could use his 10 minions with 5 speed each to flip and grab all the guests while adding a couple flesh moulders to the mix for good measure.


The entire problem there seams to stem from the kobalds. Are you sporting any sort of Blast attack, it seams the only way to counter that strategy. This may be an issue since it doesn't appear you have any magic type heros who generally have that in spades.

Quote:
The second encounter was just as bad for impossibility. The figure we were chasing ran away well before we could get halfway through the dungeon. The master naga and naga in the second room stopped us for some time thanks to good defensive rolling and the master giant in the hallway just went down as our prey exited the dungeon. We weren't even close. The sense of impossibility right from the outset really ruined the fun for us. Has anyone else found this?

All input appreciated. Thanks!


I've actually seen reports here of the exact opposite in that one. The boss starts so close they just walk up and beat her to death in the first turn or two. Did you somehow get your entire party caught by naga immobilize so you were unable to chase her down?

Also, take note of that, stun and immobilize are extremely important in those chase levels.

Honestly, while there are some flaws with balance in quite a few levels, your group makeup isn't that good at all. Read through here for some good tips:

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/835412/hero-strategy-tips-pa...

Keep a good eye on the Stun, Immobilize and blast section. You want at least one reliable source of the first two and one blast. Blast is much less important for 2 players with smaller group limits.

Spiritspeaker is weaker than Disciple with less than 4 heroes, and then they are still pretty even, and the only big benefit to Wildlander over Thief is Danger Sense. Thief just has so many nice abilities.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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manydills wrote:
Hopper1 wrote:
We have 3 heroes (wildlander, spiritspeaker, Knight). Our wildlander is Tobyn Farslayer, whose ability is +2 damage from a surge if he is 3 spaces or more away. My friend playing Tobyn chose him randomly, not knowing much about the game, and he is upset because while the rest of us have handy abilities, his skill is basically rendered less than useless as soon as he gets a crossbow. Most of the decent ranged weapons already have "surge: +2 damage" that dont even require you to be 3 spaces away. He finds it disheartening. Has anyone else found this or even bothered playing with him? Don't get me wrong, it was nice for a while there, but is basically obsolete fairly quickly.


Tobin can spend a surge on the weapon ability AND a surge on his hero ability. It's not entirely useless.


I was going to say the same thing. It's not obsoleted; it makes him a potentially really powerful ranged fighter, because he can get a bonus from the Crossbow AND from his ability.
 
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Blake Davis
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Hopper1 wrote:
We have 3 heroes (wildlander, spiritspeaker, Knight). Our wildlander is Tobyn Farslayer, whose ability is +2 damage from a surge if he is 3 spaces or more away. My friend playing Tobyn chose him randomly, not knowing much about the game, and he is upset because while the rest of us have handy abilities, his skill is basically rendered less than useless as soon as he gets a crossbow. Most of the decent ranged weapons already have "surge: +2 damage" that dont even require you to be 3 spaces away. He finds it disheartening. Has anyone else found this or even bothered playing with him? Don't get me wrong, it was nice for a while there, but is basically obsolete fairly quickly.

Secondly, while admitting that we stomped the OL on a couple scenarios, the last we played was the Masquerade ball - spoiler alert for the below material so stop reading if you haven't done it.

In the first encounter, we faced 3 hellhounds he put in the first room and no less than 10 kobolds in the back room besides the vampire lady herself. The one token in the first room was a flesh moulder so needless to say he had all the guests spirited away before we could even get out of the first room. It was totally impossible to get out before he could use his 10 minions with 5 speed each to flip and grab all the guests while adding a couple flesh moulders to the mix for good measure.

The second encounter was just as bad for impossibility. The figure we were chasing ran away well before we could get halfway through the dungeon. The master naga and naga in the second room stopped us for some time thanks to good defensive rolling and the master giant in the hallway just went down as our prey exited the dungeon. We weren't even close. The sense of impossibility right from the outset really ruined the fun for us. Has anyone else found this?

All input appreciated. Thanks!


I've been playing Tobin with Buldar in a 2-Hero game. First of all, keep a Blue/Yellow bow on Tobin. Especially if you get the Act I upgrade. His ability plus the ability of a Bow can be used if you roll 2 surges, or better yet, get the Wildlander skill to always add a Surge to a roll. Remember each ability can only be used *once*, so a "Surge: +2 Wounds" on a bow does not render his ability useless at all. I can't even count how many times he's been able to kill a big monster in one-two shots with his Feat.

Second, I'm finding more and more that Masquerade Ball is probably the hardest adventure to do for the Heroes. In four games now with each hero-size tried once (me as OL), using base monsters in a few and expansion in one, it is very hard. Winning the first one makes a victory on the second part a nigh-guarantee. Even when the heroes won the first part with a *very* good starting roster (they had five Act I items already after only First Blood + one other Act I due to a good Thief and the healer Aurim, who gave them an extra Search card every encounter), they still barely lost the second part. I just piled big/hard to kill guys in front, saved a dash to run Eliza up to the first door (got lucky on the roll) and finish to the next, then every turn just continued to move through. Granted, I was lucky and never rolled higher than a 3 on the skill check, but I had backup 'reroll' cards just in case.

The only other one I haven't seen the heroes win yet on is Castle Daerion. Fat Goblin and Death on the Wing I've always seen the heroes win (Belthir is very hard to keep alive, even when winning the first one) and the Cardinal's Plight isn't too bad if you have a decent Willpower guy to just heal every turn.
 
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MIke H
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I am sorry, I still don't understand the ability. My understanding was that a surge can only be used for 1 ability and that each surge-able ability can be pumped by as many surges as you have? Are you guys saying that he can use a single surge twice or are you telling me each surge ability may only have 1 surge used on it and they can't stack, thus giving him a second option to use a surge on?

Thanks!

Edit: the answer came just as I posted this. Thanks for the input everyone. We have been playing that a surge ability can be used more than once. Important to know for the future! Also glad to hear masquerade ball is tough for everyone.
 
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Blake Davis
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The latter. Each 'surge ability' can only be used once per attack.

From the rulebook, pg 13:
"Each individual surge rolled during the attack roll may be spent once to trigger surge abilities. Each surge ability may only be trigged once per attack. However, if the attacker has access to two different surge abilities with identical effects, he can trigger both effects if he obtained enough surge results."

Why did you think the Berserker's starting axe listed "Surge: +1 Wound" twice? :)
 
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Kelly Overholser
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Surge abilities can't stack; you can use each surge ability only once (which is why the berserker's starting axe has "~: +1 wound" twice).

Note that this is a change from 1E, where you could use the same surge ability multiple times if you rolled multiple surges.
 
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Leonardo Prunk
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Thunder wrote:
Hopper1 wrote:
Has anyone else found this?


Yes, Lots.

I just played through a whole campaign and the Heroes only won the first scenario (First Blood) and the first half of one other scenario. They got thrashed in all the other scenarios, not even a chance in many of them.

Our OverLord used huge based monsters to block halls and such which really slowed the Heroes. All of the scenaarios we played were "race" scenarios and the OL won every single scenario without even trying very hard.

Peace


Same here.

I played the Overlord for about 6 quests until now with two different groups and it went always like this: If I put like a bunch of zombies or goblins, I lose, but whenever I put a big monster blocking spaces and corridors, I win, granted. Every quest played was like this...
 
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Adam Baumeister
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Karui_Kage wrote:

The only other one I haven't seen the heroes win yet on is Castle Daerion.


Our 4 hero party just did that the other day, handily.

It's really interesting to me hearing people say that the Heroes have it tough. I think it is as much the players as it is the characters and the dice rolls.

We have a group with Sindrael/Knight, Jain/Wildlander, Orc Lady/Necromancer, and Cleric Lady/Spirit Speaker, and our Overlord has had a VERY hard time of it. He has not won a single mission yet.

We have been fortunate to pull some good gold on searches, and we got the Chainmail for our Knight immediately after the First Blood mission, but really I think the most important thing for heroes is to keep an eye on how their abilities can synergize with the abilities of their other heroes, and build accordingly.

We frequently use the Reanimate to let the Knight teleport into good position to tie up monsters, position ourselves to prevent large creatures from moving through us, and take our turns in an order that allows the person with the most potential to improve our position to choose (to a degree) what order we activate in.

I kinda hope, for the sake of our OL, that the Descent 1 monsters give him a bit more of an edge one his conversion kit gets in.
 
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I get the feeling that people are not getting the right equipment or something. Here is my MVP party so far (using Epic play rules):

1. Widow Tarha, Runemaster; Iron Battleaxe, Leather Armor; Runic Knowledge, Inscribe Rune, Runic Mastery. The Iron Battleaxe does tons of damage with a character that can generate surges, and Widow Tarha almost never misses to boot. When I roll a surge my damage can become epic (Up to 11 Hearts, Pierce 2 when buffed).

2. Syndrael, Knight; Iron Longsword, Chainmail, Iron Shield; Oath of Honor, Defend, Defensive Training. Syndrael is really good at taking a hit and is often found right next to things I care about, which is often the rest of the party or sometimes a quest objective. Her move feat is awesome for getting out of the gate quickly and her ability means she always has some energy even after she's been knocked down.

3. Jain Fairwood, Thief; Sling, Mana Weave; Greedy, Sneaky, Tumble. Jain can get just about anywhere she needs to, Sneaky opens doors, Tumble gets her past roadblocks, and Greedy occasionally lets her slip an item from underneath an angry ogre. Her once per game means she can cover a lot of distance when needed. Finally the Mana Weave makes sure she can stun with that sling, allowing the other team members to catch up to fleeing enemies.

4. Avric Albright, Disciple; Iron Mace, Wooden Shield, Ring of Power; Prayer of Healing, Cleansing Touch, Divine Fury. Avric is my healer (I think you need at least one) and also all around party buffer. Prayer of Healing keeps me healthy and, with Divine Fury, is also an attack buff. Adding a Yellow die is especially effective since it means Avric's ability gets used more often.
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Bobb Beauchamp
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I wonder how much the Conversion kit was checked for balance. For instance, the open group in A Fat Goblin can be filled with Beastmen...or Giants. In a 4 player game, that's 2 giants that the heroes have to fight through in order to have a chance to start saving crops. It seems like a fairly big swing in difficulty, and I'm not sure that the difference in numbers alone makes for good balance.

At the same time, I also recognize that the quests are designed to give both sides a chance to win. While it may be fairly obvious in some cases for how the OL player can choose and use his monsters to increase his odds of winning, I think it's less obvious for the heroes how best to choose heroes and skills.
 
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André Oord
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Descent is not balanced as it is an asymmetrical game. It does a good job however to get players on the edge of their seats.

However, as OL, just give the players a break, to keep everyone feeling good and motivated. I find this more important than winning every game.
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Laundry wrote:

Descent is not balanced as it is an asymmetrical game. It does a good job however to get players on the edge of their seats.

However, as OL, just give the players a break, to keep everyone feeling good and motivated. I find this more important than winning every game.

Asymmetrical games can be balanced, see Starcraft 1 for one of the better examples.

Descent does seem to be roughly balanced for competitive play at certain levels. Actually the Epic play rules for 3 heroes seem pretty close to balanced in a lot of the Act I quests.
 
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