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Subject: Playable with 2 players ? rss

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Laurent Lecomte
France
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Hi,

I would like to know if someone ever try a two players game. I only played with 3 and i wonder is the game is still fun in face to face.
 
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K
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Yes, according to most BGG voters, this game is actually BEST with 2 players.
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Rik Van Horn
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Not best IMO, but very playable.
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Depending on what kind of mood I'm in, it'll be between 2p and 3p. 2p games for more control, 3p games for where u want an extra opponent to deal with that can really spice things up.


4p... probably only the team game.
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Bill Kunes
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Go for it! The majority of our plays are 2p. My wife's new favorite game.
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Martin G
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I would not play it with more than 2!
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Runcible Spoon
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qwertymartin wrote:
I would not play it with more than 2!


Agreed.

It really is best with 2.

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Justus
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hmm maybe I'll have to give the game a second chance then, I have been exceedingly underwhelmed with the game but its always been more than two.
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Brad Morgan
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I agree with others that two is really where this game excels, and in fact this is my wife and my favorite 2-player game. In 2-player there is still a certain level of control, whereas with more than two there is much more unpredictability and greater swings.

aaarg_ink wrote:
hmm maybe I'll have to give the game a second chance then, I have been exceedingly underwhelmed with the game but its always been more than two.


I have found that with this game, the more I play, the more I like it. Familiarity with the cards really helps! I know there as several cards that when I draw them, I am immediately excited as they are among my favorite, and I then begin thinking about other cards I hope to be able to obtain because they work so well together.

Don't give up on this game yet!

~Brad
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Tim Seitz
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Glen Allen
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qwertymartin wrote:
I would not play it with more than 2!

I agree. Taught the game to a couple of folks last night. It was a table of 4. I almost just didn't play. I probably shouldn't have played. In fact, I told them earnestly and up front that it wasn't good with four, but they wanted to play anyway.

To my sensibilities, the game appears balanced primarily for 2 players, as some cards become extremely strong with more players, like Monotheism, which is the card I used to score about 30 points in short order to win the game, and the other folks were left wondering what people seen in this game.

With two, there's enough opportunity to build up a tableau while an streaking opponent scores and achieves. The issue with higher player counts stems from two main issues: 1) fewer achievements are needed to win, so one good scoring streak can get you the win, and 2) with more players, it's much more likely that an I Demand dogma results in a good scoring streak.
 
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Noble Knave
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I think the game works best with 2, well with 4 player teams, decently with 3, and horridly with 4 player FFA. One of my gaming buddies hates this game after having been burned by the chaos of 4 player FFA, which is a shame as it's a bad way to play.

Now why they decided to make the expansion go up to 5 I have no idea, other than to for marketing purposes.
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Brook Gentlestream
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The game feels far more strategic when played with 2 players. It's almost like a different game altogether.

It is, by far, my favorite 2-player game.
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Ben Draper
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out4blood wrote:
To my sensibilities, the game appears balanced primarily for 2 players, as some cards become extremely strong with more players, like Monotheism, which is the card I used to score about 30 points in short order to win the game, and the other folks were left wondering what people seen in this game.

With two, there's enough opportunity to build up a tableau while an streaking opponent scores and achieves. The issue with higher player counts stems from two main issues: 1) fewer achievements are needed to win, so one good scoring streak can get you the win, and 2) with more players, it's much more likely that an I Demand dogma results in a good scoring streak.


The 4-player team game mitigates all of this, and is the only way I play other than with 2. It's also a good way to balance experience levels at the game - put the newbie with the most experienced player.
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Justus
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BennyD wrote:
[q="out4blood"]The 4-player team game mitigates all of this, and is the only way I play other than with 2. It's also a good way to balance experience levels at the game - put the newbie with the most experienced player.


Local Houston gamers who I respect quite a bit swear 2P or 4P-team is the only way to go. And I have to say even my 4p-team game was underwhelming because I still felt like a spectator for most of the game, but i can see how a 2P game would work quite nicely because I'd always be in on the action.
 
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Noble Knave
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BennyD wrote:
out4blood wrote:
To my sensibilities, the game appears balanced primarily for 2 players, as some cards become extremely strong with more players, like Monotheism, which is the card I used to score about 30 points in short order to win the game, and the other folks were left wondering what people seen in this game.

With two, there's enough opportunity to build up a tableau while an streaking opponent scores and achieves. The issue with higher player counts stems from two main issues: 1) fewer achievements are needed to win, so one good scoring streak can get you the win, and 2) with more players, it's much more likely that an I Demand dogma results in a good scoring streak.


The 4-player team game mitigates all of this, and is the only way I play other than with 2. It's also a good way to balance experience levels at the game - put the newbie with the most experienced player.


+1 to this. I don't mind giving strategic advice to a newbie opponent, but it's certainly more self-serving to advise your newbie partner.

I've found a great team strategy is to have 1 player responsible for attacking the opponents and the other responsible for scoring/advancement. Doesn't always work out that way with the card draws, but it's a great way to get both partners involved and has lead to me winning with a newbie partner being crucial to our victory.
 
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Ben Bateson
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I'm with Martin. This game is downright POOR with 3 or 4 players.
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Tim Seitz
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Glen Allen
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I could play the team version because it's essentially 2 player (with each player having two heads), except that there are so many better 4 player games, it isn't even funny.
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Noble Knave
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out4blood wrote:
I could play the team version because it's essentially 2 player (with each player having two heads), except that there are so many better 4 player games, it isn't even funny.


What about 4 player team games? I agree that there are tons of better 4 player FFA games (that are likely preferable to Team Innovation), but if I'm in the mood for a team game do you have recommendations? The only ones off the top of my head are Tichu and Summoner Wars, the latter also being a primarily 2P game with a team option.
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Kester J
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I think 3p is getting a bit of a bad rap here - there are a lot of interesting interactions to be had when you can be between the other two players in a particular symbol - but agree that 2p is good and 4p is rubbish!
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Ley Brown
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I would agree that 3 player is still a very good game, but it does have less control, obviously, than a 2 player game. Part of the attraction of Innovation is the changing game state and managing and responding to it. Playing 3 player moves you through the deck faster and lets you see the ways some cards can shine that are not as evident in a two player game. A lot of decisions will be concerned with playing cards where you are the in-between player so different type choices from two-player game without the obvious chaos of the four player game.
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It's best as a two-player game. 4-player game is madness. 3-player game is pushing the limits. I'll have to try it at least once more to see if it's worth it, at least with newbies the pace is quite slow near the end and the game takes maybe a bit too long for what it is(a step closer to chaos).
 
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Michael Denman
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Best with 2. You'll see that I have more games logged for Innovation than anything else I own and 98% of those games have been two-player.

4 player team is next best. It offers something a little different if you actually play as PARTNERS as you should.

3 and 4 player add more chaos than I really care for, but I could be talked into 3 player. I could NOT be talked into 4 player without teams. As Tim said, there are just too many other good games out there for that player count.
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Ben Draper
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Trump wrote:
Best with 2. You'll see that I have more games logged for Innovation than anything else I own and 98% of those games have been two-player.

4 player team is next best. It offers something a little different if you actually play as PARTNERS as you should.

3 and 4 player add more chaos than I really care for, but I could be talked into 3 player. I could NOT be talked into 4 player without teams. As Tim said, there are just too many other good games out there for that player count.


Yeah, this about sums up my feelings.
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Stephan Brissaud
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burzum51 wrote:
Hi,

I would like to know if someone ever try a two players game. I only played with 3 and i wonder is the game is still fun in face to face.


2 players definitely allow more strategy as there is less random events happening between each of your turns and you can META game better.
With more than 3, you really don't control much and need to adjust your strategy constantly.
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Paul D
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bkunes wrote:
Go for it! The majority of our plays are 2p. My wife's new favorite game.


I second this, to the letter.
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