Recommend
11 
 Thumb up
 Hide
32 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Samurai Battles» Forums » General

Subject: Waning Interest.... rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
William Smith
United States
Unspecified
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
O.K., obivously there are many fans of Samurai Battles: (Command and Colors) here and understand that I also consider myself one. That being said, of all my C&C games, this one is getting the least play recently and it really comes down to components.

I love the theme and I love the Dragon Cards(probably because I like Lore Cards in BatteLore). The gameplay and balance is solid and well-conceived.

That being said, this has slid behind C&C: A, C&C: N and BattleLore in recent weeks. I just find the minis too fiddly for a Command & Colors game. Fishing out the minis you need, keeping them standing up, handling those spears with care...it is just too troublesome. It's not that I am a "blocks only" guy...I love the minis in BattleLore. However, I think the "squat", 15mm-ish, soft plastic of BattleLore is more suitable for a quick, unit-shuffling Command & Colors game.


All is not lost, the introduction of new units in the future will keep this game fresh...but I just don't see myself being as excited to set up a Samurai Battles game in the future. I predict this game will gather some dust even though I am a huge enthusiast of Samurai/Feudal Japanese history and Borg's rules system. I think because of the Zvezda connection, and the effort to be "two games in one", we have plastic minis that aren't ideal for a game of this type. Had Zvezda been able to put their soft plastic Samurai/Ashigaru minis in the box I think I would feel a lot better about the game.

I know minis may seem like a small issue in a game compared to mechanics/rules....but components are an important consideration in the setup and flow of a game.

Am I glad I pre-ordered and purchased this game? Sure. Will I play it again? Sure. If I want a quick, easy game of Command & Colors will it be the first game I grab of my shelf? Probably not.

It's a good game, but it cancels the possibility of seeing this era(Feudal Japan) done in a Command & Colors block or soft plastic mini game that doesn't try to be a "plastic model" game at the same time, which is a little disheartening. If this was the only way we were ever going to see Samurai armies in a C&C game I will take it...but the end result is a little fiddly.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Millette
United States
Henderson
Nevada
flag msg tools
badge
God Bless the USA
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
PKDuke wrote:
O.K., obivously there are many fans of Samurai Battles: (Command and Colors) here and understand that I also consider myself one. That being said, of all my C&C games, this one is getting the least play recently and it really comes down to components.

I love the theme and I love the Dragon Cards(probably because I like Lore Cards in BatteLore). The gameplay and balance is solid and well-conceived.

That being said, this has slid behind C&C: A, C&C: N and BattleLore in recent weeks. I just find the minis too fiddly for a Command & Colors game. Fishing out the minis you need, keeping them standing up, handling those spears with care...it is just too troublesome. It's not that I am a "blocks only" guy...I love the minis in BattleLore. However, I think the "squat", 15mm-ish, soft plastic of BattleLore is more suitable for a quick, unit-shuffling Command & Colors game.


All is not lost, the introduction of new units in the future will keep this game fresh...but I just don't see myself being as excited to set up a Samurai Battles game in the future. I predict this game will gather some dust even though I am a huge enthusiast of Samurai/Feudal Japanese history and Borg's rules system. I think because of the Zvezda connection, and the effort to be "two games in one", we have plastic minis that aren't ideal for a game of this type. Had Zvezda been able to put their soft plastic Samurai/Ashigaru minis in the box I think I would feel a lot better about the game.

I know minis may seem like a small issue in a game compared to mechanics/rules....but components are an important consideration in the setup and flow of a game.

Am I glad I pre-ordered and purchased this game? Sure. Will I play it again? Sure. If I want a quick, easy game of Command & Colors will it be the first game I grab of my shelf? Probably not.

It's a good game, but it cancels the possibility of seeing this era(Feudal Japan) done in a Command & Colors block or soft plastic mini game that doesn't try to be a "plastic model" game at the same time, which is a little disheartening. If this was the only way we were ever going to see Samurai armies in a C&C game I will take it...but the end result is a little fiddly.


I agree with this 100%. I think I mentioned this before, but I believe that steel movement trays and magnetic bases glued to the bottom of each figure are needed to make this game playable for the reasons you've mentioned. My figures will be stored on the trays, so I can just pull the appropriate trays to set up the scenarios. It will be much quicker to setup and much smoother to play. Might just need to switch out a few red/yellow flags here and there.

Having said that, I've ordered customized trays that fit the units and hex sizes on the board. The cavalry trays will be different than the infantry trays. I expect them to arrive any day and I'll take pictures and post them here to bgg when they do. But, this solution adds an additional cost to the game. I originally ordered two game sets. The customized movement trays cost me around $40 with shipping, so I've decided to sell off my 2nd set to offset this additional cost.

Hopefully we will see a Vassal module soon. The game will be ideal for that medium of play.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Smith
United States
Unspecified
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
mille1212 wrote:


Having said that, I've ordered customized trays that fit the units and hex sizes on the board. The cavalry trays will be different than the infantry trays. I expect them to arrive any day and I'll take pictures and post them here to bgg when they do. But, this solution adds an additional cost to the game. I originally ordered two game sets. The customized movement trays cost me around $40 with shipping, so I've decided to sell off my 2nd set to offset this additional cost.

Thanks for your comments. That's the thing...the are various ways to make minis work for this(another option would be to buy several boxes of the soft plastic Zvezda minis)....but they involve additional investment. To me, this marks a failure of the game's core set. The "two games in one" idea was clever, but, trying to do too much, it just fails in the component category. (yes the minis are beautiful, they're just not functional)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
chuckster williams
United States
Ohio
flag msg tools
mb
Frank Lloyd Wright was once described as a man who designed fantastic buildings with leaky roofs. But to me, a leaky roof still beats sleeping outside. So I am just going to man up and try to deal with pointy spears and fiddly pieces. I love C&C too much just let this game collect dust.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Brown
United States
Ohio
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I just want to get time to play the game. Cant wait until the summer rush is over and can settle in to some long cold winter gaming. But I hear and fear your statements well.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Millette
United States
Henderson
Nevada
flag msg tools
badge
God Bless the USA
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
PKDuke wrote:
mille1212 wrote:


Having said that, I've ordered customized trays that fit the units and hex sizes on the board. The cavalry trays will be different than the infantry trays. I expect them to arrive any day and I'll take pictures and post them here to bgg when they do. But, this solution adds an additional cost to the game. I originally ordered two game sets. The customized movement trays cost me around $40 with shipping, so I've decided to sell off my 2nd set to offset this additional cost.

Thanks for your comments. That's the thing...the are various ways to make minis work for this(another option would be to buy several boxes of the soft plastic Zvezda minis)....but they involve additional investment. To me, this marks a failure of the game's core set. The "two games in one" idea was clever, but, trying to do too much, it just fails in the component category. (yes the minis are beautiful, they're just not functional)


Again, agreed. I don't think plastic models were the best choice for sure. But, on the otherhand I have no intention of leaving the game in it's current state to as you say, "collect dust". The game and it's mechanics deserve to be played, so I choose to spend addition monies to correct the source of my personal frustration (components) and make it playable for me. Others might not have an issue with the components at all. To each their own. I can only speak for myself. I know what needs to be done on my part to get this game on the table more often and I will do so.

Am I happy to have to do this? No. The true cost of this game to me is now $95 ($55 purchase + $40 steel movement trays + bases). Is it worth $95? I'm still on the fence in regards to this. I still have not tried AOT. If the AOT game is good, then I would say yes, the game is worth $95. If not, then I would say no. Either way, I plan on having a great (possibly overpriced) C&C Samurai Battles game that is easy to set up, easy to store, and easy to play with the addition of steel movement trays and magnetic bases.

If anyone ever comes to Vegas, then PM me and we'll play a game... We'll squeeze in a game or two of Battlelore, CC:A, CC:N, Battlecry, or Memoir 44 too if you like.
3 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Read the rulebook, plan for all contingencies, and…read the rulebook again.
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm in the middle of painting my set, so it definitely can't see play time while it's on the bench.

From a board gamer's perspective, Samurai Battle's is a fussy game to play. My plan for now is to store units in cardboard jewelry boxes and use those for set-up and take-down. I'm also interested in David's idea for using metal trays and magnets. I may also put together some blocks for easy transport and play for casual games one day.

This is Zvezda's second stab at a game-with-models and, despite its criticisms, it seems to have more early attention and traction than Operation Barbarossa has had. I think the idea of bringing Richard Borg in to present a set of C&C rules for the game was a brilliant idea. This game will always be remembered and perhaps sought after by C&C players simply because of that.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Brown
United States
Okemos
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
BradyLS wrote:
This is Zvezda's second stab at a game-with-models and, despite its criticisms, it seems to have more early attention and traction than Operation Barbarossa has had. I think the idea of bringing Richard Borg in to present a set of C&C rules for the game was a brilliant idea. This game will always be remembered and perhaps sought after by C&C players simply because of that.


It has more traction due to the C&C system being used. OB was using a new system(AoT) so it had to break through the mass of war games already out there. This is as much Zvezda's baby as anything. During an interview, Borg mentioned he was merely along for the ride since they asked him to do it, and they were the ones in the driver's seat.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
StevenE Smooth Sailing...
United States
Torrance
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have issue with components too... I've been working on a review of the game but keep finding I don't like what I've written.

Game play is stellar... I love how each scenario unfolds. It seems when all hope is lost there is a needed card or a roll for victory.

My real problem is with the board. I realize why it was produced the way it was but feel it should have been a mounted-joined board. One side for C&C the other for AoT. I also feel the board is too deep for C&C... Units don't move very quick most of the time so it takes a long time to move up units from the rear. Especially if they are not connected to other units in the case of "Serpent". I don't care for the board color and terrain graphics. They remind me of the New Battle Cry board and terrain... They melt into each other and become muddled.
I was unimpressed with the board so I created a new one that looks like parchment and joined the seams... It made a big difference. I am now working on new terrain as well.

The figures are more durable than I originally gave them credit. The spears are way too long to be conducive to moving around on the board, otherwise everything is ok.

I am painting 2 sets and a number of unit expansions... It is slow going as i try to paint for a few hours several nights a week. I will try posting some images soon.

I have other issues with the game but will save those for my review.

Suffice to know though that C&C:Samurai Battles will be my favorite of the series once it gets fleshed out a bit more.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tyler Tinsley
United States
Portland
Oregon
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sheesh give us some time to assemble and paint before you call the game dead.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Duke
United States
Wynne
Arkansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
. I don't care for the board color and terrain graphics. They remind me of the New Battle Cry board and terrain... They melt into each other and become muddled.


I have to agree, the green rivers are mighty ugly, even before you count the die cut in them that all the terrain has to fit on the plastic hills (although it seems unlikely the rivers will be on the hills.)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Jones
United States
Charlotte
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree with all the criticisms in this thread, and it's the reason I don't yet own the game. I keep coming back to the amount of time (both construction and set-up) and space needed for storage and just can't pull the trigger to purchase.

The setting, rules and Dragon Cards all sound great - but the components, and to a lesser extent the board construction and art, have kept me away. It does make me wish that Days of Wonder or FFG could have published this instead.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christian Busch

Broomfield
Colorado
msg tools
mb
I don’t have the game yet either but I’m curious: the game comes with trays, why can’t you use them for the C&C side too? Seems like it’s a lot cheaper than buying/scratch building a solution. I think trays are necessary for non-block C&C and I made trays for BL. I was really excited to see that SB has trays with the game but I’ll be less excited if the trays don’t work.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Smith
United States
Unspecified
New York
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
space monkey mafia wrote:
I don’t have the game yet either but I’m curious: the game comes with trays, why can’t you use them for the C&C side too? Seems like it’s a lot cheaper than buying/scratch building a solution. I think trays are necessary for non-block C&C and I made trays for BL. I was really excited to see that SB has trays with the game but I’ll be less excited if the trays don’t work.

They don't work this way. The cavalry trays don't hold the needed # of minis for the unit and the infantry trays reallt don't keep the figures upright as you slide them around in many cases. If you watch some of the videos here, you'll see some of the reviewers mentioned that they tried this and it wasn't functional(my experience as well).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
StevenE Smooth Sailing...
United States
Torrance
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Brian, the C&C aspect is a great game. Don't let the criticism here steer you away. If you get a chance to play go for it.

Christian, the trays can be and probably should be used in C&C games.

Putting all the components back in the box after playing will likely not happen. I am still trying to figure out the best storage solution.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
ad1642
Canada
Montréal
Québec
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
I agree, as a boardgame it is not optimal, but approached as a modeling project it makes it easier to digest, unless you really like that kind of thing.

You can't beat blocks for efficiency and visual appeal, plus you get all the colors. This would be my preferred "on the go" version.

Counters have never been used for C&C, they are functional but a bit bland for a game like this.

Soft plastic a la M44/BC? easy set-up out of the box but have low realism and can be as fiddly to handle (especially in the case of BC).

All I can say to encourage people is that all the hard work will be rewarded with visually impressive battle scenes driven by a proven (if not favorite) game engine.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Read the rulebook, plan for all contingencies, and…read the rulebook again.
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
PKDuke wrote:
space monkey mafia wrote:
I don’t have the game yet either but I’m curious: the game comes with trays, why can’t you use them for the C&C side too?...

They don't work this way. The cavalry trays don't hold the needed # of minis for the unit and the infantry trays reallt don't keep the figures upright as you slide them around in many cases. If you watch some of the videos here, you'll see some of the reviewers mentioned that they tried this and it wasn't functional(my experience as well).


I've had the opportunity to play the Art of Tactic side of the game with the trays, and overall I thought they were fine. I actually prefer using the trays to loose figs for the few C&C games I played. I move the unit by picking up the tray by the banner. For the samurai cavalry, I put a couple of the red AoT "washers" on the banner and picked them off first before removing figures from the tray.

Of the handful of people I've introduced Samurai Battles to, one is a decided fan of the Art of Tactic rules and bought a copy based on the game we played.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Millette
United States
Henderson
Nevada
flag msg tools
badge
God Bless the USA
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
space monkey mafia wrote:
I don’t have the game yet either but I’m curious: the game comes with trays, why can’t you use them for the C&C side too? Seems like it’s a lot cheaper than buying/scratch building a solution. I think trays are necessary for non-block C&C and I made trays for BL. I was really excited to see that SB has trays with the game but I’ll be less excited if the trays don’t work.


I believe the trays will work if you are willing to use some sticky glue (the stuff that rolls up into a ball). The only reason the trays didn't work for me is that the units kept falling over and annoying me when I moved them. Sticky glue would solve that problem and the trays would then work fine in my opinion.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Millette
United States
Henderson
Nevada
flag msg tools
badge
God Bless the USA
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
BradyLS wrote:
PKDuke wrote:
space monkey mafia wrote:
I don’t have the game yet either but I’m curious: the game comes with trays, why can’t you use them for the C&C side too?...

They don't work this way. The cavalry trays don't hold the needed # of minis for the unit and the infantry trays reallt don't keep the figures upright as you slide them around in many cases. If you watch some of the videos here, you'll see some of the reviewers mentioned that they tried this and it wasn't functional(my experience as well).


I've had the opportunity to play the Art of Tactic side of the game with the trays, and overall I thought they were fine. I actually prefer using the trays to loose figs for the few C&C games I played. I move the unit by picking up the tray by the banner. For the samurai cavalry, I put a couple of the red AoT "washers" on the banner and picked them off first before removing figures from the tray.

Of the handful of people I've introduced Samurai Battles to, one is a decided fan of the Art of Tactic rules and bought a copy based on the game we played.


This is what I'm hoping for Brady. Wish there was a way to try aot on vassal.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Brown
United States
Ohio
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Steady hands folks. You know you have them if you already put all the models together. The trays will work, just breath.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kev.
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
Read & Watch at www.bigboardgaming.com
Avatar
Dorb wrote:
Steady hands folks. You know you have them if you already put all the models together. The trays will work, just breath.


Not sure I want that much effort I was at our FLGS store today and looked really hard at buying hte game but the investment for construction and painting was too hi for this simple guy.
I hope to play someone elses set soon!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ronin 4life
United States
flag msg tools
I have mostly stored my minis on my table... which is hardly a solution(nor my intended solution)
I plan to place them in the Zvezda trays(The Arrows and Sashimono-less leaders will go in baggies) and then place those standing up in a box... that I will have to move veeeery carefully...^_^;

As for play, I don't really have any problems with tipping or falling myself... except when my fan blows into the rank banners...>.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benjamin Symons
Belgium
Glabbeek
Vlaams-Brabant
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think a lot issues have to do with habits and 'mindsets'. I myself was bothered at first that there was no way on earth to store the mini's included in the box (and in the 11 reinforcement boxes I bought) in the original box once they were assembled. And I really didn't want to store the game in multiple boxes outside of the original box. I've never done that with any of my other games. It's an OCD-ish thing...

But I realised there was no other option, so I've bought my first plano box ever, and stored most of the mini's there. Tiles, flags, bases, cards, boards, etc. are still stored in the game box, together with a small box for the ashigaru spearmen.

One shouldn't think about this game as a board game with miniatures, but as a miniatures game with boards.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Brown
United States
Okemos
Michigan
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
SammySnijbonen wrote:
One shouldn't think about this game as a board game with miniatures, but as a miniatures game with boards.


There's a reason why Zvezda's name is on the box.

I will say the initial learning curve is higher than I wanted for putting stuff together. Once you get one copy of something down, you get better at doing the others. I'm not even halfway through and I feel like I'm getting better overall to where I expect less and less issues. I say this as somebody who has never done miniatures at all.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aerol Bibat
Philippines
Taguig
Metro Manila
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I have this being shipped to me - I'll have it in a month - so I'm still pumped for it. Although, I can probably see ordering up a few wooden blocks and printing out a few stickers for myself so I can do quick set-up games. Zvezda minis are nice and I've had experience with their figs before.

I'm also excited in creating my own scenarios for the game. And I'd really like to see the Art of Tactics rules in action.

if anything else, we can probably cobble up some fan support for the game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.