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Subject: New Scenario from Brummbar44.com - Worthington Force rss

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Malcolm Green
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Grab the latest scenario from my website at http://www.brummbar44.com

edit: scenario amended August 21st 2012.
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Malcolm Green
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Note; this is a demo of what I am looking to do with some campaign booklets I have in mind. I would like to convince FFG that this is a viable product and that there is demand for it from the community (which I think there is)…so if you are in favour of more like this, let your voice be heard!

...or at least let your thumb be heard
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clive holland
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At the moment there is a lot of support for Tide Of Iron. A shame it is not from FFG. Between yourself, Freddie Yu and Ray Guns, scenarios are plentiful. Why don't you three get together, contact FFG and produce an official scenario book as they seem incapable of doing so?

Keep up the good work.

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Malcolm Green
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dutchy124 wrote:
At the moment there is a lot of support for Tide Of Iron. A shame it is not from FFG. Between yourself, Freddie Yu and Ray Guns, scenarios are plentiful. Why don't you three get together, contact FFG and produce an official scenario book as they seem incapable of doing so?


Agreed. I've personally made a couple of attempts in conjunction with others to get a project off of the ground. Initially, FFG seemed to be in agreement...but it just never seems to happen.

I'm hoping that if we can show them that there is a demand for the product, perhaps they will be more willing to allow us to produce it. Heck, I'm not even asking for them to do anything more than sanction it...but I guess that's the sticky point.

dutchy124 wrote:

Keep up the good work


Thanks for your kind words...but it's hard to keep the chin up sometimes. There are currently only 4 thumbs here for example (even though the scenario has been downloaded 30 times already)...the community really has to voice their demand otherwise it is hard to fault FFG for not producing.

This will likely be my last effort to this end. If I can't get FFG to come to the table...I'll work on something else.
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Brian
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Re: New Scenario from Brummbar44com - Worthington Force
There is demand. There is demand!

This is a great game and sincerely, thanks for your efforts.
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Dave Crater
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I'm with Brian. There is a support even if it was a PDF on LULU I would imagine there would be some purchases. 10-12mm minis aren't that hard to aquire so there is the ability to include different and varied vehicles and or troops and guns. I am surprised that with all the Memoir and ASL love that TOI lies fallow.

FFG seems to drop a game if there isnt a huge blast of support (ie Battlelore, Westeros etc...) I can see TOI living on for a decade as a upgrade from the more simple tactical games. CoH and CC dont have the bling factor. I am hoping that I can make this a good convention game. Basic rules and awesome minis get a lot of looks.

I always liked the path that Worthington took with the Cowboy game and made a group of scenarios based on TV and movies. I dont know how much work is involved in making the scenarios and playtesting for TOI. Hope my 2 cents help Brummbar, he really has put a lot of heart and soul into Memoir and TOI and would like to see his efforts to continue.
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Ray
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GreenBear wrote:
Grab the latest scenario from my website at http://www.brummbar44.com



We played this scenario a few times and the Canadian side always win. In fact, with experienced TOI players, we can't see how the German player(s) can win.

However, we do have some questions about the scenario setup. The first obvious one being the Concealed Marker for Division 2. For what purpose does this have? Division 2 only has one squad base, two mortar crews, one 88mm AT gun (Flak-36), and two Panthers. The AT gun and tanks cannot use the Concealed Marker. Only that one squad base with the two mortars can use it. Why in the world would anyone conceal their mortars? They will need to fire, and once the mortars fire, the concealed marker is removed.

Another obvious concern is that the Canadians start with the initiative, which means, they can pretty much knock out the 88mm AT gun (Flak-36) on their first action turn if they wanted to. The simple way to do this is to have three tanks out in front - though exposed, can deal harm - so that they can attack the 88 and then move away (fire and move). Sure, the German player can place the 88 out of harms way so that that it cannot be attacked, but that only helps the Canadian player since the 88 is out of the action and must be moved - at one hex at a time - into place. And the turn the 88 moves, it does not fire.

In short, a very good tactic for the Canadian player is to put two Sherman tanks and one Firefly tank out in front, and just take advantage of the situation. Normally, they would be presented with three very good choices as to what to do because the Canadian player has the initiative.

Also, in our games, we discovered that the Canadian player(s) can always have the initiative for the first to Game Rounds if they want. This can be a deciding factor in most cases.
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Ray
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Oh, and I forgot to mention in my last post, it tends to be easy for the Canadian player(s) to block - and thereby denying - the German reinforcements from coming on board. Especially those that come in on board 8B. And if cleverly done, those that come on board 6B and 5B.

Denying the German player reinforcements just makes it even more impossible for the German player to pull off a victory.

Had there been more than one hex the German reinforcements can come on the board with, this would have made it difficult for the Canadian player(s) to prevent their arrival. But instead, there is only one hex, and this is sometimes easy to block.
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Malcolm Green
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Good comments Ray.

The concealed marker was meant to hide the 88 as per my Haus rules...sorry, again this was originally meant to come out as part of a campaign. I overlooked that on this version. The intent there was to allow the 88 to be concealed while a squad in it's hex is also concealed. Would make more sense that way (please see my Bretteville Bridgehead scenario for the rule).

To be honest, we struggled with who should have initiative in the test plays. Perhaps it is best to allow the Germans the initiative after all...I'm sure that would change up your tactics.

Good point too on the blocking of the reinforcements. I should've noted that the German player may enter on those hexes or any hex adjacent to those hexes (which, should a Canadian unit be on the entry hex, could actually be detrimental to their cause).

But hey, what do you want for free?

Thanks for playing and reporting back.

 
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clive holland
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With reference to Ray's posts, I was, (still am, as we are playing the scenario again with German initiative), his opponent. We did think there must be some special rule for the 88 as it just didn't make sense. With a little planning the Canadians can keep all reserves from coming on the board, so as Malcolm says a slight adjustment to include all adjacent hexes would solve that problem.

With those tweaks it will I am sure be a more balanced scenario. Now, maybe if the Germans have the initiative it maybe too much.

Malcolm, we know you put a lot of effort into producing these scenarios and they are much appreciated, but as you have previously stated this scenario has been downloaded 30 times and only 4 thumbs up. At least we play the scenarios and make comments. I am sure you would rather we commented, even with slight criticisms, than keep quiet as if we hadn't played them.

Once again, a big thank you for firstly providing these scenarios and secondly for keeping TOI in the public eye and perhaps one day FFG will take note that they are letting their customers down and it is about time they looked at supporting this game as they promised in their introductory video. (Sorry can't find the link just now).

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Malcolm Green
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I do appreciate the feedback and comments...it helps improve the scenario and may perhaps clarify some questions others might have.

Can I drop you two a line on some playtesting in the future?

Thanks again.
 
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clive holland
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By all means.
 
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John Di Ponio
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Excellent job Malcolm! I took the scenario for a spin this past weekend and it proved to be quite fun! I do agree that FFG has to take a hard look into the popularity of this game. There may be a bit less of a fan base than some of the more popular titles, but we are dedicated to the system and would further fund the system. Too bad they can't do a kickstarter for a Japanese expansion!
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Ray
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GreenBear wrote:
The concealed marker was meant to hide the 88 as per my Haus rules...sorry, again this was originally meant to come out as part of a campaign. I overlooked that on this version. The intent there was to allow the 88 to be concealed while a squad in it's hex is also concealed. Would make more sense that way (please see my Bretteville Bridgehead scenario for the rule).

To be honest, we struggled with who should have initiative in the test plays. Perhaps it is best to allow the Germans the initiative after all...I'm sure that would change up your tactics.


We played the game again but changed the starting initiative to "Germans" and tossed out the concealed marker. It was a close game with the Germans and Canadians both gaining five VP, and in case of a tie, the Germans win.

However, we think the best starting initiative is:
Initiative: Germans, but Canadians setup first.

GreenBear wrote:
Good point too on the blocking of the reinforcements. I should've noted that the German player may enter on those hexes or any hex adjacent to those hexes (which, should a Canadian unit be on the entry hex, could actually be detrimental to their cause).


Even though the Germans started with the initiative, the Canadians were were still able to block one of the reinforcements (and almost two!) from coming.

Tactical Hits:

Germans:
You have to destroy those Canadian tanks! And you have to make sure the Canadian player cannot block your reinforcements from coming in, which is easy for them to do if they are a cleaver player. But if you follow Malcolm's change to making it that hex and adjacent hexes, no worries then.

Canadians:
Losing tanks will cost you the game! Try to preserve your tanks and do not place them in harms way if you can avoid it. But at the same time, you need their might to help stop the German advance. If you lose only two or three tanks, you will almost always win. Also, I would focus on the Morale Deck I because there are some really good cards that will help you turn the tide of battle in your favor. For example, if you can get the Gone to Ground card, you can conceal a unit in the Victory Objective hex provided you put an entrenchment their. If so, this would greatly help you. It would take them two turns to take that hex. First turn is wasted just to reveal your unit if you play it right. Also, the Take Cover card helps. Especially your tanks, since you need to protect them: 4 armor + 2 cover (woods) + 2 cover (card) = 8 save dice!
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Ray
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GreenBear wrote:
I do appreciate the feedback and comments...it helps improve the scenario and may perhaps clarify some questions others might have.

Can I drop you two a line on some playtesting in the future?


And I need to drop you a line. I got permission from Bill to go ahead and share my scenarios - you know, the ones from last year - but I don't have a webpage. Would you be interested in hosting them?
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Hss Hss
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To block the entrance hex for reinforcements is a cheasy tactic in my mind anyway, and a general rule banning it would be nice. Unless it is deliberate and represent blowing up a bridge or something.

So the conclusion is that with two minor changes the scenario is balanced? Great

Thumbs up for posting scenarios and fixing them. And Ray T. Yes, please post the scenarios from last year.
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Malcolm Green
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RayGuns wrote:


However, we think the best starting initiative is:
Initiative: Germans, but Canadians setup first.



Good call. We did playtest that too and it was one of the more tempting options but I thought it would be more consistent to stick with the usual format.

What Ray suggests above is actually the best way to start the game.

Edit: I've now amended the scenario based on the suggestions - Thanks!

RayGuns wrote:

And I need to drop you a line. I got permission from Bill to go ahead and share my scenarios - you know, the ones from last year - but I don't have a webpage. Would you be interested in hosting them?


Absolutely, I would be happy to add them to the site. Thanks on behalf of the community.
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Malcolm Green
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JohnnyD wrote:
Excellent job Malcolm! I took the scenario for a spin this past weekend and it proved to be quite fun! I do agree that FFG has to take a hard look into the popularity of this game. There may be a bit less of a fan base than some of the more popular titles, but we are dedicated to the system and would further fund the system. Too bad they can't do a kickstarter for a Japanese expansion!


Thanks JohnnyD! Glad you enjoyed it.

I hope FFG hears our latest cries! This is a great game and deserves further exploration.

Glad to see the community is still interested.
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I played this scenario yesterday, and with scenarios like this I say that ToI is a wonderful game.

The Germans won, but Canadians did a mistake right at start to allow my panthers to attack two shermans right out of the bat which got them heavily damaged. Which was a quit heavy blow to their forces. My anti-tank gun survived the entire battle, but that was basically due to luck. It did not mange to do much either (except scare a few shermans to not move out). The problem for the German's is that they need, or at least feel they need, to attack but they really don't have the manpower to do so. The Canadians put up their entrenchemnts in forests which made them really really though crack to take.

The germans (me) did the mistake to attack with their infanteri to eagerly, and I used my double mortar on the wrong side of the table. I should have used it where I actually had a few infanteri sitting. That would have made my infanteri advance far more powerful. But I was to eagerly wanting the one command on the other side of the table, which I did not get anyway cuz the lone infanteri without cover got blown apart anyway. It would have been far better to use my double mortar on the other side and advance with my infanteri there instead.

Then the round where it all got decided. The Canadians used an air support card, with no effect (lucky me), used combined fire to DESTROY one tiger and another to lightly damage a panther. Having spent their actions the Germans decided to to a fire & movement action with two panthers, knowing that they would win the initiative next round they knew that they got another shot at point blank before the enemy could react. Which in the next round resulted in another destroyed Sherman and a heavily damaged firefly. They could fire back with whatever they had left, but it only resulted in another lightly damaged panther.

With four of the five vehicles more or less out of action, the Germans only had to take out one Sherman and take the victory hex, which they manged in round 5, thus winning by one victory point. The key to winning as the Germans is to realize that your panthers are well protected and can risk getting shot by a single Sherman (and to lough out load at their bazookas, very important (ok maybe not at point blank) )


The main problem for the Germans is the enemies infanteri, which there are many of, fair amount of elites, two MGS, and in good well dug-in potions. In addition, the Germans will suffer from lack of command.
The advantage of the Germans is their double mortar and that Panthers which are just great.

This was by no means a walk in the park for the Germans and with better initial deployment of the shermans the Canadians could have won. Most probably by keeping the victory hex all six rounds (or maybe they could flee with one of their shermans)


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