Alex Vandertol
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I always appreciate it when someone starts a thread like this, so I'll be the one to do it for this fantastic game. Feel free to add your own entries.

I've played this game three times now, and despite the excellent (and clear) rulebook and simple mechanics, we still did a few things wrong in each of the games. Hopefully others can benefit from my mistakes.

1) You can take the reward for any tier at or below any meeple in the council chamber for *free* if you already have a meeple there and are not promoting it up. The iconography for this area is not entirely consistent with the crafting area. (For some reason the first game we played that you always had to pay the time)

2) When performing a mass, the first player may pay the indulgence to the church to get as many family members out of the bag as he wants to / can afford, before the second player gets the chance to do the same. (We played the first two games that you could only do one per time around the turn order. When played correctly, some players may never get the chance to pay an indulgence.)

3) After drawing inductees into the church, each player in turn order may pay the cost to move one or several of his monks up the church hierarchy as far as you want by paying the grain cost for all the moves. You only get one chance to do this, and you must pay the full cost immediately. (The first time we played that you could only make one move, the second game we played that you could move more than one meeple, and not until writing this post did I realize what the rules actually say)

4) At the end of the mass, the player with the most monks gets 2 prestige (for some reason we had it in our minds that this was only at the end of the game).

5) The purple area in the village chronicle is for meeples who die in the farmyard (we searched all over the game board for the purple shield area until someone noticed it on the farmyard board)

6) There is always a final mass at the end of the game. (We read the rule as saying that it was skipped in some circumstances, not realizing that the rule is there to prevent confusion about whether or not there will be two final masses)

Most of our confusion stems from not reading the rules about masses until we got to to a mass, and then glossing over quickly because we were eager to keep playing. Perhaps you made the same mistake, and this list will help! The rulebook is excellent and clear, but can't force you to read it carefully :-)
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I would add these, though again, they are fairly clear in the rules.

1) When traveling, the Wagon is a COST and so must be spent. Our first game we played you just needed to own one like when you own the horse/oxen and plow for harvesting. In addition, when you place a meeple there, they have to go to the first city (though we played it correctly, everyone wanted to just place their meeple at the gate).

2) The Crafts section has two routes to get the yellow tokens. Either pay the influence cubes OR place a meeple. The tendency was to place a meeple no matter what. In addition, the cost to place a meeple is a ONE TIME cost to train them and then a recurring cost to produce the token. So in essence, the first good is always twice as much time as subsequent ones if you go this route.

3) Don't forget about the wishing well. As long as cubes remain on the board, you can turn in 3 cubes to take ANY action on the board. This is a means to take out a 2nd market action in the game.

4) Going along with that, remember to reset the market immediately: don't wait until the end of the round. Because with the wishing well, a 2nd (or more) action can be taken here. In addition, first player does not have to pay the green influence/time to sell in the first go-around (but will need to after that).

5) One more our players overlooked: 1 Coin can be used as any influence cube. Players often thought they were out of options when they had a pile of cash they could have used.
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Brent Wilson
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mirrordude wrote:

3) After drawing inductees into the church, each player in turn order may pay the cost to move one or several of his monks up the church hierarchy as far as you want by paying the grain cost for all the moves. You only get one chance to do this, and you must pay the full cost immediately. (The first time we played that you could only make one move, the second game we played that you could move more than one meeple , and not until writing this post did I realize what the rules actually say)

You description here had me confused, so I consulted the rules. Did you mean "only one" instead of the bold.

I think I got it right. allowing multiple meeples to be moved at one time (It ends up cheaper per VP to advance the low windows first.)


Quote:
2. Once 4 pieces have been drawn from the bag (even if they were only black
monks), each player may move one or even several of his family members up
in the church hierarchy (move them leftward on the windows). Beginning with
the starting player and then continuing in clockwise direction, each player may
do this once. To move a family member to the next window on the left, you must
return as many bags of grain to the supply as are shown between the windows.
Your family members may even move up more than one window, provided you
pay enough grain to cover all movement.
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Mark M
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Not to pile on, and as you say these items are in the rules, but the thing my son and I messed up first time we were playing was overpaying for items. For example, we were paying a brown cube and three time to put someone in the "church bag" when it is an either/or payment. Same goes for some other areas, such as council chamber.
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Speedyox wrote:
mirrordude wrote:

3) After drawing inductees into the church, each player in turn order may pay the cost to move one or several of his monks up the church hierarchy as far as you want by paying the grain cost for all the moves. You only get one chance to do this, and you must pay the full cost immediately. (The first time we played that you could only make one move, the second game we played that you could move more than one meeple , and not until writing this post did I realize what the rules actually say)

You description here had me confused, so I consulted the rules. Did you mean "only one" instead of the bold.

I think I got it right. allowing multiple meeples to be moved at one time (It ends up cheaper per VP to advance the low windows first.)


Quote:
2. Once 4 pieces have been drawn from the bag (even if they were only black
monks), each player may move one or even several of his family members up
in the church hierarchy (move them leftward on the windows). Beginning with
the starting player and then continuing in clockwise direction, each player may
do this once. To move a family member to the next window on the left, you must
return as many bags of grain to the supply as are shown between the windows.
Your family members may even move up more than one window, provided you
pay enough grain to cover all movement.

The rules are a bit foggy here but basically you can move AS MANY as you want AS FAR as you want. But you only have one opportunity to do this per turn.

So you can't be start player, and choose to move one meeple one space and then see that the next player has moved ahead of you (for the tie-breaker) and then go ahead and pay more to move that meeple farther ahead.

The "only once" means "one opportunity" to move as many as you want. It could have been more clear.
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Quote:
The rules are a bit foggy here but basically you can move AS MANY as you want AS FAR as you want. But you only have one opportunity to do this per turn.

So you can't be start player, and choose to move one meeple one space and then see that the next player has moved ahead of you (for the tie-breaker) and then go ahead and pay more to move that meeple farther ahead.

The "only once" means "one opportunity" to move as many as you want. It could have been more clear.


Remember, you are limited to five bags of grain in your farmyard (and don't believe there is a modifier for that), so there is only so far you would be able to move your workers up in the church on a given turn anyway. Those priests seem to get hungry!
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manymoodys wrote:
Quote:
The rules are a bit foggy here but basically you can move AS MANY as you want AS FAR as you want. But you only have one opportunity to do this per turn.

So you can't be start player, and choose to move one meeple one space and then see that the next player has moved ahead of you (for the tie-breaker) and then go ahead and pay more to move that meeple farther ahead.

The "only once" means "one opportunity" to move as many as you want. It could have been more clear.


Remember, you are limited to five bags of grain in your farmyard (and don't believe there is a modifier for that), so there is only so far you would be able to move your workers up in the church on a given turn anyway. Those priests seem to get hungry!

Understood, you are limited by the grain that you have. But even with 5 grain, you can get at least two moves out of it - the jump from the 1st to the 2nd and from the 3rd to the 4th. Or move 5(!) from the first space to the 2nd space.

The point is, you can do as much as you want with what you have available. But must do it all at once or wait until the next round.
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The one rule we missed is that the game ends immediately after either the Chronicle or the graveyard is filled. You don't finish out the round.
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Butterfly0038 wrote:
The one rule we missed is that the game ends immediately after either the Chronicle or the graveyard is filled. You don't finish out the round.

Not quite. All other players get ONE more action except the player that caused the end of it by killing their meeple. And if all the cubes are gone (or get taken during this last round) remaining players can take any action they want for free.
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I learned this game to teach to my gaming group, and I'm proud to say I didn't miss any of the rules mentioned above Actually I found the rules pretty clear.

What I did was read the rules through and then play out a solo game with three "players," slowly, and carefully checking the rules as I went through the game, before bringing it to game night. I highly recommend this method for any "game teachers" out there. Otherwise it's too easy to miss small things in the heat of the moment and the excitement.
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Alex Vandertol
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JohnnyDollar wrote:
What I did was read the rules through and then play out a solo game with three "players," slowly, and carefully checking the rules as I went through the game, before bringing it to game night. I highly recommend this method for any "game teachers" out there. Otherwise it's too easy to miss small things in the heat of the moment and the excitement.


Well, now you're using logic and common sense. Threads like this wouldn't be necessary if we all did this! This is what I *mean* to do most of the time, but usually I end up only having time to read 2/3 of the rulebook before the first play.
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Speedyox wrote:
mirrordude wrote:

3) After drawing inductees into the church, each player in turn order may pay the cost to move one or several of his monks up the church hierarchy as far as you want by paying the grain cost for all the moves. You only get one chance to do this, and you must pay the full cost immediately. (The first time we played that you could only make one move, the second game we played that you could move more than one meeple , and not until writing this post did I realize what the rules actually say)

You description here had me confused, so I consulted the rules. Did you mean "only one" instead of the bold.

I think I got it right. allowing multiple meeples to be moved at one time (It ends up cheaper per VP to advance the low windows first.)


Quote:
2. Once 4 pieces have been drawn from the bag (even if they were only black
monks), each player may move one or even several of his family members up
in the church hierarchy (move them leftward on the windows). Beginning with
the starting player and then continuing in clockwise direction, each player may
do this once. To move a family member to the next window on the left, you must
return as many bags of grain to the supply as are shown between the windows.
Your family members may even move up more than one window, provided you
pay enough grain to cover all movement.


What we did the second time was realize that we *could* move more than one meeple, but *not* realizing that we could also move them multiple spaces.
 
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mirrordude wrote:

1) You can take the reward for any tier at or below any meeple in the council chamber for *free* if you already have a meeple there and are not promoting it up. The iconography for this area is not entirely consistent with the crafting area. (For some reason the first game we played that you always had to pay the time)


Tell me if I have this right regarding the Council Chamber:

1. I already have a meeple there. I can take an influence (or disease) cube from the spot and I do not have to pay the [time + green cubes] or [time + parchment]. If I don't pay the cost, my meeple does not advance. In this case, I can still take one reward at the level my meeple is currently at or from a previous level.

2. I already have a meeple there. I can take an influence (or disease) cube from the spot and I can pay the [time + green cubes] or [time + parchment] to advance. If my meeple advances, I can take the reward from the level my meeple had advanced to or take a reward from a previous level.

Are both of these statements accurate?

Thanks.
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mirrordude wrote:
JohnnyDollar wrote:
What I did was read the rules through and then play out a solo game with three "players," slowly, and carefully checking the rules as I went through the game, before bringing it to game night. I highly recommend this method for any "game teachers" out there. Otherwise it's too easy to miss small things in the heat of the moment and the excitement.


Well, now you're using logic and common sense. Threads like this wouldn't be necessary if we all did this! This is what I *mean* to do most of the time, but usually I end up only having time to read 2/3 of the rulebook before the first play.




Also it's a much more enjoyable experience for the players being taught. I've been a player learning a game from a teacher who's head is buried in the rule book, boy can that drag...
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JohnnyDollar wrote:
Also it's a much more enjoyable experience for the players being taught. I've been a player learning a game from a teacher who's head is buried in the rule book, boy can that drag...

I taught this game and only played one rule wrong as I pointed out. The rest were things that the players tried to do even though they had been explained correctly. Either the board icons confused them or they got places mixed up.

Some of the things pointed out weren't played wrong, just not taken advantage of - like coins as wilds and the Wishing Well.
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remus wrote:
mirrordude wrote:

1) You can take the reward for any tier at or below any meeple in the council chamber for *free* if you already have a meeple there and are not promoting it up. The iconography for this area is not entirely consistent with the crafting area. (For some reason the first game we played that you always had to pay the time)


Tell me if I have this right regarding the Council Chamber:

1. I already have a meeple there. I can take an influence (or disease) cube from the spot and I do not have to pay the [time + green cubes] or [time + parchment]. If I don't pay the cost, my meeple does not advance. In this case, I can still take one reward at the level my meeple is currently at or from a previous level.

2. I already have a meeple there. I can take an influence (or disease) cube from the spot and I can pay the [time + green cubes] or [time + parchment] to advance. If my meeple advances, I can take the reward from the level my meeple had advanced to or take a reward from a previous level.

Are both of these statements accurate?

Thanks.

Yes, both are correct. You only "pay" if you advance. If you just collect a cube, you can take the action you stand on now or one to the left of that.
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JohnnyDollar wrote:
mirrordude wrote:
JohnnyDollar wrote:
What I did was read the rules through and then play out a solo game with three "players," slowly, and carefully checking the rules as I went through the game, before bringing it to game night. I highly recommend this method for any "game teachers" out there. Otherwise it's too easy to miss small things in the heat of the moment and the excitement.


Well, now you're using logic and common sense. Threads like this wouldn't be necessary if we all did this! This is what I *mean* to do most of the time, but usually I end up only having time to read 2/3 of the rulebook before the first play.




Also it's a much more enjoyable experience for the players being taught. I've been a player learning a game from a teacher who's head is buried in the rule book, boy can that drag...


Well, that's why I assign you the best games for homework
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
Butterfly0038 wrote:
The one rule we missed is that the game ends immediately after either the Chronicle or the graveyard is filled. You don't finish out the round.

Not quite. All other players get ONE more action except the player that caused the end of it by killing their meeple. And if all the cubes are gone (or get taken during this last round) remaining players can take any action they want for free.


I missed this free action rule at the end of the round. We also missed the tie rule in the church. If you are all tied in the church then who ever is farther along gets the bonus 2 VP.
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Guantanamo wrote:
JohnnyDollar wrote:
mirrordude wrote:
JohnnyDollar wrote:
What I did was read the rules through and then play out a solo game with three "players," slowly, and carefully checking the rules as I went through the game, before bringing it to game night. I highly recommend this method for any "game teachers" out there. Otherwise it's too easy to miss small things in the heat of the moment and the excitement.


Well, now you're using logic and common sense. Threads like this wouldn't be necessary if we all did this! This is what I *mean* to do most of the time, but usually I end up only having time to read 2/3 of the rulebook before the first play.




Also it's a much more enjoyable experience for the players being taught. I've been a player learning a game from a teacher who's head is buried in the rule book, boy can that drag...


Well, that's why I assign you the best games for homework


You're not one of the "offenders" by the way, I like that you are not willing to play a game if you don't have the rules pretty well down for it...
 
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
remus wrote:
mirrordude wrote:

1) You can take the reward for any tier at or below any meeple in the council chamber for *free* if you already have a meeple there and are not promoting it up. The iconography for this area is not entirely consistent with the crafting area. (For some reason the first game we played that you always had to pay the time)


Tell me if I have this right regarding the Council Chamber:

1. I already have a meeple there. I can take an influence (or disease) cube from the spot and I do not have to pay the [time + green cubes] or [time + parchment]. If I don't pay the cost, my meeple does not advance. In this case, I can still take one reward at the level my meeple is currently at or from a previous level.

2. I already have a meeple there. I can take an influence (or disease) cube from the spot and I can pay the [time + green cubes] or [time + parchment] to advance. If my meeple advances, I can take the reward from the level my meeple had advanced to or take a reward from a previous level.

Are both of these statements accurate?

Thanks.

Yes, both are correct. You only "pay" if you advance. If you just collect a cube, you can take the action you stand on now or one to the left of that.


So that means...

1. It's not really efficient to put more than one person in the church council (except to have them die there).
2. If you advance a meeple to the highest level, you can trade 1 coin for 3 VP every cube grab.
3. If you advance a meeple to the second highest or highest level, you can get a free horse/wagon/etc. every cube grab.
 
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Doomsday31415 wrote:

So that means...

1. It's not really efficient to put more than one person in the church council (except to have them die there).
2. If you advance a meeple to the highest level, you can trade 1 coin for 3 VP every cube grab.
3. If you advance a meeple to the second highest or highest level, you can get a free horse/wagon/etc. every cube grab.


1. It depends, if the game is about to end, worth considering to place multiple meeples there, it's 6 VP for each of your meeples in the right most space

2. Yes
3. Yes
 
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_Zephyr wrote:
Doomsday31415 wrote:

So that means...

1. It's not really efficient to put more than one person in the church council (except to have them die there).
2. If you advance a meeple to the highest level, you can trade 1 coin for 3 VP every cube grab.
3. If you advance a meeple to the second highest or highest level, you can get a free horse/wagon/etc. every cube grab.


1. It depends, if the game is about to end, worth considering to place multiple meeples there, it's 6 VP for each of your meeples in the right most space

2. Yes
3. Yes


Doomsday is right about number 1. It's not efficient. I can't imagine any likely situation where spending the last few turns of the game pushing a second family member to the 6VP slot in the council would be the best available option. That plan would take a mountain of cubes and/or scrolls for council and well actions and would almost certainly be less efficient than "Harvest-mill-council" or "Harvest+church" or "craft-market".
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learned a lot´╝îthanks
 
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