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Subject: White Washing the Bible rss

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So I read about Darren Aronofsky's vision of the story of Noah. And yes, I know it's probably a parable or work of fiction, but come on. I know Aronofsky like to capture a lot of style points, but I want a movie more like "The Mission" and less like "The Fountain".

I mean, Blue Eyed, Blonde Haired Russell Crow. Blue eyes were non-existent in the fertile crescent during that age. At least try and capture a little realism in a period piece.

It's probably true that Jesus wasn't a black man, but he also wasn't western European, and neither was Noah. We really need to break the cycle of Renaissance era painting versiond of Biblical characters, right?

NOAH, we need a little more this:



Less of this:

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Noah was of course an Iraqi



Lets keep it as accurate as possible.
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chaendlmaier wrote:
Yeah, I mean really, Noah never existed because a worldwide flood never happened during the time span purported by the bible, so the role of Noah might as well be played by a Native American, a Japanese or whomever.

Why are blockbusters about biblical stories filmed anyway? Is Hollywood run by conservative Christians?


Because it sells. That's all they worry about.
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chaendlmaier wrote:


Why are blockbusters about biblical stories filmed anyway? Is Hollywood run by conservative Christians?


Even if it is a work of fiction, it's very epic fiction, and one of the original works of fiction.

Therefore, why would Hollywood NOT film the works of it?

My gripe is that if the Semitic religions want to scope the bible into historical context, why would they try to make so many societal inaccuracies in its depiction in film?
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MWChapel wrote:
chaendlmaier wrote:


Why are blockbusters about biblical stories filmed anyway? Is Hollywood run by conservative Christians?


Even if it is a work of fiction, it's very epic fiction, and one of the original works of fiction.

Therefore, why would Hollywood NOT film the works of it?

My gripe is that if the Semitic religions want to scope the bible into historical reality, why would they try to make so many societal inaccuracies?


Because it's not about entertainment but power and privilege. The portrayal of bible stores is deigned to create an image, and to justify an attitude.

As to a commercial aspect, I would suspect that a film abut Manu staring an Indian would sell to a far wider audience then a story about Noah (Jewish, black or gay).
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slatersteven wrote:

As to a commercial aspect, I would suspect that a film abut Manu staring an Indian would sell to a far wider audience then a story about Noah (Jewish, black or gay).


Are you kidding? The Passion of the Christ by Mel Gibson made $600Million in ticket sales alone, and filmed it in Aramaic, using "mostly" well portrayed ethnicity. No, there is a lot of money to be made in a story of NOAH.
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slatersteven wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
chaendlmaier wrote:


Why are blockbusters about biblical stories filmed anyway? Is Hollywood run by conservative Christians?


Even if it is a work of fiction, it's very epic fiction, and one of the original works of fiction.

Therefore, why would Hollywood NOT film the works of it?

My gripe is that if the Semitic religions want to scope the bible into historical reality, why would they try to make so many societal inaccuracies?


Because it's not about entertainment but power and privilege. The portrayal of bible stores is deigned to create an image, and to justify an attitude.

As to a commercial aspect, I would suspect that a film abut Manu staring an Indian would sell to a far wider audience then a story about Noah (Jewish, black or gay).


But perhaps not at a higher revenue.
 
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MWChapel wrote:
slatersteven wrote:

As to a commercial aspect, I would suspect that a film abut Manu staring an Indian would sell to a far wider audience then a story about Noah (Jewish, black or gay).


Are you kidding? The Passion of the Christ by Mel Gibson made $600Million in ticket sales alone, and filmed it in Aramaic, using "mostly" well portrayed ethnicity. No, there is a lot of money to be made in a story of NOAH.


I did not say it would not make money, I said that more people would go to see a film about Manu. There is a westernised bias in religious epics that crowds out anything that is not Chrisitan.
 
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phil_standen wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
chaendlmaier wrote:


Why are blockbusters about biblical stories filmed anyway? Is Hollywood run by conservative Christians?


Even if it is a work of fiction, it's very epic fiction, and one of the original works of fiction.

Therefore, why would Hollywood NOT film the works of it?

My gripe is that if the Semitic religions want to scope the bible into historical reality, why would they try to make so many societal inaccuracies?


Because it's not about entertainment but power and privilege. The portrayal of bible stores is deigned to create an image, and to justify an attitude.

As to a commercial aspect, I would suspect that a film abut Manu staring an Indian would sell to a far wider audience then a story about Noah (Jewish, black or gay).


But perhaps not at a higher revenue.


Perhpaps, but if it's made by a western studio with the saem levels of production values and advertising why not? after all the highest grossing films of all time are not about a particular faith.
 
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slatersteven wrote:


I did not say it would not make money, I said that more people would go to see a film about Manu. There is a westernised bias in religious epics that crowds out anything that is not Chrisitan.


But we're not talking about Bollywood here, we're talking about Hollywood and it's portrayal of characters of the bible.

//Stay on target.
 
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MWChapel wrote:
slatersteven wrote:


I did not say it would not make money, I said that more people would go to see a film about Manu. There is a westernised bias in religious epics that crowds out anything that is not Chrisitan.


But we're not talking about Bollywood here, we're talking about Hollywood and it's portrayal of characters of the bible.

//Stay on target.



Nor am I’m I talked about western bias, the type of films the west chooses to make. The economic argument does not hold water because there are plenty of non-Christian religions stories they could tell that might actually have a slightly wider audience. The choice is about how particular faiths wish to portray themselves; It’s not what sells. I would go as far as to say it’s about ownership, the idea that (for example) Christ was not a Jew).
 
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I hope they show the screams of the dying desperate for air and the bodies of babies floating by. They miss that bit in those propaganda story books.
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Halfinger wrote:
I hope they show the screams of the dying desperate for air and the bodies of babies floating by. They miss that bit in those propaganda story books.


I'll say this for the Passion of the Christ, it was no holds barred. I agree the real 'lie' is not whitewashing the characters but the stories.
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slatersteven wrote:
I would go as far as to say it’s about ownership, the idea that (for example) Christ was not a Jew).


But even the most ardent 7th day Adventists know that Jesus was Jewish. It's taught at the earliest bibles studies. And that he was born in Galilee in the Levant. I don't think there is any inconsistency there. I'm sure the medieval population wouldn't be able to point out visual differences between themselves and people living in and around the areas of Jesus, but pretty much every person in contemporary times do see the visual differences.

So why is the portrayals still using the medieval metric? Sure Hollywood was mainly a white business in the 30's-50's, but today we have talented actors of ethnicity. There really is no good excuse anymore.
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slatersteven wrote:
Halfinger wrote:
I hope they show the screams of the dying desperate for air and the bodies of babies floating by. They miss that bit in those propaganda story books.


I'll say this for the Passion of the Christ, it was no holds barred. I agree the real 'lie' is not whitewashing the characters but the stories.


I have no issue with religious films as long as they do not try to hide what it would actually have been like. When I see kids story books it's sickening. How can you present a deeply disturbing story of mass genocide as fun? Only a twisted mind who's morality has been completely broken can do that.

Also some biblical stories are fun to read. That is true for most religions but as Christianity is the most popular in the West it makes sense to use that as a source.
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MWChapel wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
I would go as far as to say it’s about ownership, the idea that (for example) Christ was not a Jew).


But even the most ardent 7th day Adventists know that Jesus was Jewish. It's taught at the earliest bibles studies. And that he was born in Galilee in the Levant. I don't think there is any inconsistency there. I'm sure the medieval population wouldn't be able to point out visual differences between themselves and people living in and around the areas of Jesus, but pretty much every person in contemporary times do see the visual differences.

So why is the portrayals still using the medieval metric? Sure Hollywood was mainly a white business in the 30's-50's, but today we have talented actors of ethnicity. There really is no good excuse anymore.


It was never an excuse, it was a reason. It's a reason I still think is true, it's no accident that in the Passion of the Christ Jesus wasw not played by a Jew (despite other attmpets at authenticity). It's mabout continuing to maintain an image (and a seperation).
 
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slatersteven wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
I would go as far as to say it’s about ownership, the idea that (for example) Christ was not a Jew).


But even the most ardent 7th day Adventists know that Jesus was Jewish. It's taught at the earliest bibles studies. And that he was born in Galilee in the Levant. I don't think there is any inconsistency there. I'm sure the medieval population wouldn't be able to point out visual differences between themselves and people living in and around the areas of Jesus, but pretty much every person in contemporary times do see the visual differences.

So why is the portrayals still using the medieval metric? Sure Hollywood was mainly a white business in the 30's-50's, but today we have talented actors of ethnicity. There really is no good excuse anymore.


It was never an excuse, it was a reason. It's a reason I still think is true, it's no accident that in the Passion of the Christ Jesus wasw not played by a Jew (despite other attmpets at authenticity). It's mabout continuing to maintain an image (and a seperation).


I've never heard the claim that Jesus was not Jewish. He had to be to fulfil prophesy for a start (son of David) If the film excluding or denied that it was simply wrong.
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slatersteven wrote:


It was never an excuse, it was a reason. It's a reason I still think is true, it's no accident that in the Passion of the Christ Jesus wasw not played by a Jew (despite other attmpets at authenticity). It's mabout continuing to maintain an image (and a seperation).


Agreed, the lead in the Passion of the Christ was still just the wrong amount of white washing, but then again, you really cannot say it wasn't a portrayal of the typical Jew, as most of of the Jewish population you see today are of Ashkenazi descent, which is still western European. It's a little unfair to say. So I still think you need to use a more earlier ethnic portrayal for what was a Jew looked like at the time.

You see movies such as the 1985 movie about King David, by uh...Richard Gere, and the other actors were noticeably contemporary Jewish. Which is still IMHO, off base historically.

 
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MWChapel wrote:
slatersteven wrote:


It was never an excuse, it was a reason. It's a reason I still think is true, it's no accident that in the Passion of the Christ Jesus wasw not played by a Jew (despite other attmpets at authenticity). It's mabout continuing to maintain an image (and a seperation).


Agreed, the lead in the Passion of the Christ was still just the wrong amount of white washing, but then again, you really cannot say it wasn't a portrayal of the typical Jew, as most of of the Jewish population you see today are of Ashkenazi descent, which is still western European. It's a little unfair to say. So I still think you need to use a more earlier ethnic portrayal for what was a Jew looked like at the time.

You see movies such as the 1985 movie about King David, by uh...Richard Gere, and the other actors were noticeably contemporary Jewish. Which is still IMHO, off base historically.



It was also the actors pet project and funded by him. So he plays it. Simple, no conspiracy there. Any blacking up would have been seen by some as fake anyway. So best not bother.
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Halfinger wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
I would go as far as to say it’s about ownership, the idea that (for example) Christ was not a Jew).


But even the most ardent 7th day Adventists know that Jesus was Jewish. It's taught at the earliest bibles studies. And that he was born in Galilee in the Levant. I don't think there is any inconsistency there. I'm sure the medieval population wouldn't be able to point out visual differences between themselves and people living in and around the areas of Jesus, but pretty much every person in contemporary times do see the visual differences.

So why is the portrayals still using the medieval metric? Sure Hollywood was mainly a white business in the 30's-50's, but today we have talented actors of ethnicity. There really is no good excuse anymore.


It was never an excuse, it was a reason. It's a reason I still think is true, it's no accident that in the Passion of the Christ Jesus wasw not played by a Jew (despite other attmpets at authenticity). It's mabout continuing to maintain an image (and a seperation).


I've never heard the claim that Jesus was not Jewish. He had to be to fulfil prophesy for a start (son of David) If the film excluding or denied that it was simply wrong.


You would think that people accept that Jesus was a Jew

http://www.truth-books.com/jesus_not_a_jew.html

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jesusjew.htm (this is a corker of a site)


I won't bother you with the Aryan Jesus sillyness.
 
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slatersteven wrote:


You would think that people accept that Jesus was a Jew

http://www.truth-books.com/jesus_not_a_jew.html

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jesusjew.htm (this is a corker of a site)


I won't bother you with the Aryan Jesus sillyness.


Yeah, I don't think it's fair to include "fringe" types. I can find a fringe that will say everything under the sun. I'm talking about most mainstream protestant and catholic religions.

I'm pretty sure Hollywood doesn't cater to the "fringe".
 
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slatersteven wrote:
Halfinger wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
I would go as far as to say it’s about ownership, the idea that (for example) Christ was not a Jew).


But even the most ardent 7th day Adventists know that Jesus was Jewish. It's taught at the earliest bibles studies. And that he was born in Galilee in the Levant. I don't think there is any inconsistency there. I'm sure the medieval population wouldn't be able to point out visual differences between themselves and people living in and around the areas of Jesus, but pretty much every person in contemporary times do see the visual differences.

So why is the portrayals still using the medieval metric? Sure Hollywood was mainly a white business in the 30's-50's, but today we have talented actors of ethnicity. There really is no good excuse anymore.


It was never an excuse, it was a reason. It's a reason I still think is true, it's no accident that in the Passion of the Christ Jesus wasw not played by a Jew (despite other attmpets at authenticity). It's mabout continuing to maintain an image (and a seperation).


I've never heard the claim that Jesus was not Jewish. He had to be to fulfil prophesy for a start (son of David) If the film excluding or denied that it was simply wrong.


You would think that people accept that Jesus was a Jew

http://www.truth-books.com/jesus_not_a_jew.html

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jesusjew.htm (this is a corker of a site)


I won't bother you with the Aryan Jesus sillyness.


Of course anti-Semites will claim that but so what? Some will claim he was a space alien. I am talking about mainstream belief, not nutty outliers.
 
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MWChapel wrote:
slatersteven wrote:


You would think that people accept that Jesus was a Jew

http://www.truth-books.com/jesus_not_a_jew.html

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jesusjew.htm (this is a corker of a site)


I won't bother you with the Aryan Jesus sillyness.


Yeah, I don't think it's fair to include "fringe" types. I can find a fringe that will say everything under the sun. I'm talking about most mainstream protestant and catholic religions.

I'm pretty sure Hollywood doesn't cater to the "fringe".


Loke Mel Gibbson and Opus Dei you mean? As I said this is not about catering to an auiance, but about telling an audiance something.
 
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Halfinger wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Halfinger wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
I would go as far as to say it’s about ownership, the idea that (for example) Christ was not a Jew).


But even the most ardent 7th day Adventists know that Jesus was Jewish. It's taught at the earliest bibles studies. And that he was born in Galilee in the Levant. I don't think there is any inconsistency there. I'm sure the medieval population wouldn't be able to point out visual differences between themselves and people living in and around the areas of Jesus, but pretty much every person in contemporary times do see the visual differences.

So why is the portrayals still using the medieval metric? Sure Hollywood was mainly a white business in the 30's-50's, but today we have talented actors of ethnicity. There really is no good excuse anymore.


It was never an excuse, it was a reason. It's a reason I still think is true, it's no accident that in the Passion of the Christ Jesus wasw not played by a Jew (despite other attmpets at authenticity). It's mabout continuing to maintain an image (and a seperation).


I've never heard the claim that Jesus was not Jewish. He had to be to fulfil prophesy for a start (son of David) If the film excluding or denied that it was simply wrong.


You would think that people accept that Jesus was a Jew

http://www.truth-books.com/jesus_not_a_jew.html

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jesusjew.htm (this is a corker of a site)


I won't bother you with the Aryan Jesus sillyness.


Of course anti-Semites will claim that but so what? Some will claim he was a space alien. I am talking about mainstream belief, not nutty outliers.


There are presistant claims of a disceate anti semitism within Hollywood.
 
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slatersteven wrote:

Loke Mel Gibbson and Opus Dei you mean? As I said this is not about catering to an auiance, but about telling an audiance something.


Mel Gibson has ties to a very anti-Semitic form of Catholicism, but the Passion of the Christ still portrayed Jesus as Jewish. The controversial message Gibson wanted portrayed is that the Jewish leadership was the reason Jesus was crucified. That is a different topic.

I do give Gibson points for portraying the times, language, and setting though.
 
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