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Subject: Determining your Agenda rss

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B C Z
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Right now, selection of your primary Corp Identity will also determine your possible Agenda with some very strict boundaries.
To date, we have seen every Agenda except one Neutral Agenda which I hypothesize is worth 3 points and that there will be three of them in the Core set.

Please forgive the blurry images that are stand ins until we get clean copies (if ever)

Here they are, along with their Corp Identity cards.






Though the free to include Assets, Operations, ICE and Upgrades will be present in a Corp deck, these Agenda are what you can expect to see once you know the identify of the Corp.

Some quick obseservations, all based on a single core set. I'm interested in speculation for x2 Core sets.

Haas-Bioroid will have 9 Agenda cards across 21 points.
Jinteki will have 9 Agenda cards across 21 points.
NBN will have 10 Agenda cards across 21 points. Technically they can drop one of the Breaking News cards.
Weyland will have 11 Agenda cards across 20 points.

___
Edit: Weyland has 6 Neutral + 5 faction == 11 cards (still 20 points)
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Micheal Keane
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That'll be the nice thing about getting a second core set - you'll be able to adjust the agenda mix until the expansions come out.
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Bob Smithy

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I'm betting that NBN and Haas-Bioroid are going to be prominent in the metagame, as they seem to have the best/most synergied agenda and abilities. Also, data raven.
 
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Ben Finkel
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Has it been just me, or is Posted Bounty really quite weak, especially compared to the other 3-cost agendas?
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Theo Seretis
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Are those really the only agendas?I was under the impression there was at least one more for every faction.
So in order to get up to the required AP you will need to run all of your faction's agendas, and all the neutrals.If you're only using a single core set that is.
Although if you plan on paying Jinteki or HB getting an extra set won't change your agendas since you already have 3 of everything and there is nothing else to splice in.
Where as NBN could splice in a third Breaking News and drop one Astroscript,or a Private Security Force.
And Weyland could play a third Post Bounty instead of a Hostile Takeover.

But there doesn't seem to be any freedom in that part of the deckbuilding process.

ffaristocrat wrote:
That'll be the nice thing about getting a second core set - you'll be able to adjust the agenda mix until the expansions come out.


No you won't.At least not if your playing Jinteki or HB.Look again.
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Noah D

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Azeltir wrote:
Has it been just me, or is Posted Bounty really quite weak, especially compared to the other 3-cost agendas?


Not just you. I noted that Posted Bounty seems quite poor, especially when compared to Breaking News which is admittedly pretty great
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Theo Seretis
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argus88 wrote:
Azeltir wrote:
Has it been just me, or is Posted Bounty really quite weak, especially compared to the other 3-cost agendas?


Not just you. I noted that Posted Bounty seems quite poor, especially when compared to Breaking News which is admittedly pretty great


Breaking News is only for one turn though,whereas posted bounty is until the runner removes them.But yeah it is kinda poor.Especially considering that B.N. only requires 2 advancements.
 
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Bob Smithy

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hunk wrote:
argus88 wrote:
Azeltir wrote:
Has it been just me, or is Posted Bounty really quite weak, especially compared to the other 3-cost agendas?


Not just you. I noted that Posted Bounty seems quite poor, especially when compared to Breaking News which is admittedly pretty great


Breaking News is only for one turn though,whereas posted bounty is until the runner removes them.But yeah it is kinda poor.Especially considering that B.N. only requires 2 advancements.


B.N. can also be advanced with one piece of NBN ice, so you can get 3 turns with it.
 
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Micheal Keane
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Do you have to forfeit Posted Bounty when you score it or can you put that off until later? I'm guessing the former but if it was the latter, that'd make it a lot better.
 
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Bob Smithy

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ffaristocrat wrote:
Do you have to forfeit Posted Bounty when you score it or can you put that off until later? I'm guessing the former but if it was the latter, that'd make it a lot better.


It's the former, because it says "when you score". That means right away :/
 
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Noah D

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hunk wrote:
argus88 wrote:
Azeltir wrote:
Has it been just me, or is Posted Bounty really quite weak, especially compared to the other 3-cost agendas?


Not just you. I noted that Posted Bounty seems quite poor, especially when compared to Breaking News which is admittedly pretty great


Breaking News is only for one turn though,whereas posted bounty is until the runner removes them.But yeah it is kinda poor.Especially considering that B.N. only requires 2 advancements.


Here's the breakdown I did previously when the new version of posted bounty was first revealed:


argus88 wrote:
Is it just me or does "Posted Bounty" seem quite poor?

It certainly looks very weak when compared to "Breaking News" say...

-Posted Bounty-
+1 permanent (until the runner spends an action and 2 bits) tag
+1 bad publicity
-4 actions
-3 bits


-Breaking News-
+2 tags for a single turn
+1 agenda point

-3 actions
-2 bits


And, if the corp decides to forgo the tags you get instead...

-Posted Bounty-
+1 agenda point
-4 actions
-3 bits


-Breaking News-
+1 agenda point
*Possibility of single turn score!

-3 actions
-2 bits

 
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Noah D

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And for a moment, continuing that line of thought, and now with the knowledge of what bad publicity actually is since we didn't know that when I first made the comparison, looking at just the differences between them, not the overall cost / benefit. Let's assume that the runner is going to spend an action and 2 bits to get rid of the tag the next turn. Let's also assume that both agendas where installed one turn and advanced twice. Now, what is the comparative cost from the next turn (when both would be scored) and on?


-Posted Bounty-
Runner -1 action
Runner -1 bit

-1 tag x - 1 action (2 actions to exploit 1 tag vs 3 actions with 2 tags for BN)
-1 bit
Runner +1 bit for runs for remainder of game


The bad publicity will in most cases end up giving the runner more bits than the cost to remove your tag, meaning that the net result is -bits, -actions, -agenda points, and one less action and one less tag to play around with on the turn you tag....
 
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James 3
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Yes it's weaker in many ways but not all, but it's in the meat damage specialist faction that has Scorched Earth. And really, BOTH are quite good in that they give tags without a trace, and can be scored at start of corp turn. That's a powerful way to setup 3 actions to mess with a tagged runner.

Score either
Scorched earth+archived memories+scorched earth GG

NBN can run Scorched Earth too, but uses 12 influence of 15 for a set of 3
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Noah D

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flamejuggler wrote:
Yes it's weaker in many ways but not all, but it's in the meat damage specialist faction that has Scorched Earth. And really, BOTH are quite good in that they give tags without a trace, and can be scored at start of corp turn. That's a powerful way to setup 3 actions to mess with a tagged runner.

Score either
Scorched earth+archived memories+scorched earth GG

NBN can run Scorched Earth too, but uses 12 influence of 15 for a set of 3


See my second post. I'd actually say it's strictly worse in every way when you factor in the runner paying to lose the tag the next turn, and then making back those bits off of your bad publicity, you just wasted extra bits and actions for less tags and no agenda points.

As for "Scorched earth+archived memories+scorched earth" Posted Bounty could only be scored at the start of the turn allowing three "tagged" actions if the corp left it out for a full 2 turns as oppose to BN's one. I actually think Posted Bounty is a pretty horrid agenda especially compared to the other faction agendas which are quite nice. That said, as you point out, the faction will need to be looked at as a whole. Still... once there are a few expansions out, I would venture a guess that Breaking News will still find its way into many decks. Posted Bounty? I'm guessing it'll have difficulty seeing the light of day.
 
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Ben Finkel
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Maybe if it costed 2 and/or didn't make you forfeit the agenda points to do the tag?
 
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Edwin Twentier
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Have we seen the numbers on Private security force, is it a 2 or 3 of?
 
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Allen Doum
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The assumptions in the OP are not entirely convincing to me. They assume that 15 points of the 20-21 required for a 45 card deck will come from neutral Agenda, which include 9 points from the unseen 3 pointer.

It seems to me that it would be possible that there are other agenda for each corp which we have not seen, with fewer points from the presumed unseen neutral.

Is there some reason these assumptions are being made that I am missing?
 
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Ben Finkel
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The assumptions are based on:

- how the card number ordering syncs up to alphabetical by card name, grouped by card type, grouped by faction

- how some factions therefore seem to already have all of their agendas accounted for, as the next card down the list is a different type

- how the rules say adding your faction cards to the neutral cards makes a valid deck, thus obeying the Agenda Point rules
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Allen Doum
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Azeltir wrote:
The assumptions are based on:

- how the card number ordering syncs up to alphabetical by card name, grouped by card type, grouped by faction

- how some factions therefore seem to already have all of their agendas accounted for, as the next card down the list is a different type

- how the rules say adding your faction cards to the neutral cards makes a valid deck, thus obeying the Agenda Point rules
Makes sense. I have not been following the card number speculations.
 
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Edwin20er wrote:
Have we seen the numbers on Private security force, is it a 2 or 3 of?


If my calculations are correct then it's a 3 up.

There are 2 slots for Agenda in the Neutral Corp section of the card manifest.

Corps have 5 or 6 Agenda points in them.

45 card decks need 20-21 Agenda points.

There need to be 15 Agenda points in the Neutral cards.

So both Private Security Force and Unknown Agenda are both 3ups.
 
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Edwin Twentier
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Ok, So if we assume that all of this is correct, and it all looks good to me, then we have very little purpose in buying a second core set for purposes of altering the agenda makeup of whatever deck we play, unless we really want to play NBN with 3 copies of either of their agendas or want to play 3 copies of Posted Bounty.

If my math is right, with 2 cores NBN can run 3 of either of their agendas as well as 3 Private Security Force and 3 of the unknown neutral agenda.

Weyland also has a choice to run either 20 or 21 with 2 cores, as they can then run 2 or 3 copies of Posted Bounty.

HB and Jinteki are both handcuffed as they can only run their 3 Agendas and 3 of each of the neutral Agendas.


 
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And for those not convinced, here's some of the logic.

Start with Neutrals. Card number range should be 106-113:

106: Agenda
107: Agenda
108: Asset (Melange Mining)
109: ???
110: Operation (Hedge Fund)
111: ICE-code gate (Enigma)
112: ICE-sentry (??? card unknown, guessing it's a Sentry)
113: ICE-wall (Wall of Static)

Card 109 COULD be an Agenda, but I seriously doubt it, and suspect it is an Operation, just not sure of it's ability

-=-=-

Haas-Bioroid:
54: HB ID
55: Agenda (Accelerated Beta Test) 2AP x3
56: Asset (Adonis Campaign) - haven't seen this number yet, but...
57: Asset (Aggressive Secretary)

Aggressive Secretary's number is known, and Adonis comes before it alphabetically.

There's no room for additional Agenda for HB, they have 6.

-=-=-

Jinteki:
67: Jinteki ID
68: Agenda (Nisei Mk II) 2 AP x3
69: Asset (Project ???) - seen in the 'fan' of cards in the article featuring Jinteki
70: Asset (Snare!)

Since 'Project' comes before 'Snare!', 69 has to be an Asset -- and Jinteki only gets one Agenda three times, worth 6 points in the deck.

-=-=-

NBN:
80: NBN D
81: Agenda: Astroscript Pilot Program (2AP x2)
82: Agenda: Breaking News (1AP x2) (number newly confirmed)
83: Asset: Ghost Branch - seen in the rules but number not seen... but
84: Operation: Closed Accounts (seen just recently)

Again, no room for other Agenda and we know both of these card's frequencies

-=-=-

Weyland:
93: Weyland ID
94: Agenda: Hostile Takeover (1AP x3)
95: Agenda: Posted Bounty (1AP x2)
96: Asset: Securty Subcontract - seen in the rules, confirmed to be a Weyland card
97: Operation: Aggressive Negotiations

Again, 5 AP of Agenda, and no room for more.

-=-=-

The Core set Agenda is pretty much proscribed.

HB and Jinteki will be using their faction Agenda and all Neutrals, and will be limited to 21 Agenda points, meaning they will be running 45-49 card decks regardless of how many Core sets you may own.

NBN has a bit more leeway, as it can run up to 9 points of faction Agenda, meaning they could use only 11-12 points of Neutral Agenda instead of the full compliment of 15 AP. That means they can leave out two Private Security forces or one of the Mystery Agenda. Alternatively they could leave them all in, have 24 Agenda Points and have a deck up to size 55-59.

Weyland is somewhat hamstrung. It can only get to 6 points of in-faction Agenda, so it still has to use the full 15 Neutral Agenda. In practical terms, that means that a second core set just lets you add a single Posted Bounty, and that won't change your potential deck size.

____

(Edit: Partial crosspost with Ed, but that's ok)
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Edwin Twentier
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No worries, This also means something else (not necessarily useful, but maybe interesting to some people). NBN is the only faction that we've seen that can go into 50-54 cards.
 
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Edwin20er wrote:
No worries, This also means something else (not necessarily useful, but maybe interesting to some people). NBN is the only faction that we've seen that can go into 50-54 cards.


Again, crossposted as I editted that in.

And they can get to 24 Agenda points, which is 55-59 cards in the deck
 
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Bob Smithy

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Another meta-game plus for NBN!
 
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