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Subject: Defeat vs Pass a combat check (another flute question) rss

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Jason Sherlock
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Flute of the Outer Gods states that it defeats all monsters in the combat area. There are a number of monsters that have a condition "if you pass a combat check against..." Does the flute's defeat cause these monster to be taken as trophies as if they were normal monsters (defeated), or does the defeat equate to passing a combat check against them?
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Jeff Hoffman
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The Flute is being used BEFORE a combat check. So, it will not matter if a monster says "if you pass a combat check."
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Joe Pilkus
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According to the card...Any Phase: Lose 3 Sanity and 3 Stamina and discard Flute of the Outer Gods before making a Combat check to defeat all monsters in your current area. This does not affect Ancient Ones.

So, you discard the "Flute" and then make your Combat Check ~ you do take the Trophies, if applicable...you can't take "Endless" for instance and you would receive the two Clue Tokens instead of claiming the Warlock or a Unique Item instead of claiming the Mi-Go.
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Tibs
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However, for all other purposes "defeat" is identical to "pass a combat check against." So you should get the trophies. I agree with what The Professor says except for "and then make your Combat Check." No check need be made.
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Brian Mc Cabe
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"Before making a combat check" just means you don't have to roll any dice to defeat the monsters. All monster text and AO special abilities still apply.

According to the consensus, though, you can't use it to auto pass The Terrible Experiment, since those monsters aren't on the board and, therefore, aren't in your current locations.

Brian
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Tibs
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The discussion in the other thread, for those who were curious, was whether Overwhelming still applied.

Edit: my two cents.
Thematically: no. You're not actually fighting the monsters, so they wouldn't make you tired.
Semantically: yes. If all the other stuff should trigger, it would be simpler to say that Overwhelming does too.
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Joe Pilkus
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Thanks, Tibs, I do forget that it is in lieu of the combat check.
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Bern Harkins
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Personally, I see overwhelming as just that... going just past whelming (one of whose definitions is to "cover or engulf completely with usually disastrous effect".)

The dying Beasty hits you.

Slams you to the ground as it expires.

I don't see any reason why the plummeting corpse of a Flying Polyp, sliced from the sky by the Lightning Gun, could not impact the Investigator who fired said Gun.

I would further suppose that a Gug, in the process of dancing itself to death to the irresistible strains of the Flute of the Outer Gods, could do considerable damage to any Flutist who came underfoot.
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Shoggoth
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kungfro wrote:
However, for all other purposes "defeat" is identical to "pass a combat check against." So you should get the trophies. I agree with what The Professor says except for "and then make your Combat Check." No check need be made.


what about the horror check? do I have to do it?

the horror check is always BEFORE the combat check... so... what happens here in this situation?
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Jeff Hoffman
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For the Flute, pick one monster for a Horror Check. Then activate the Flute.
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Tibs
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Sorry, I meant that no [combat] check needs to be made. Only the initial horror check (or, if the appropriate monsters are available, perhaps no horror check at all).
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