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Subject: Ranged attacks? rss

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David Miller
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So unless you have a sniper skill, ranged attacks will target survivors first?

That seems kind of weird I guess I kinda liken it to the haste of battle and the confusion that occurs with all the zombies.

Like I said before this game seems more like a game based upon the video game dead rising.
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Scott Hill
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Or Left 4 Dead.
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Cody Reichenau
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Yeah, if you'd ever played L4D with my usual group you'd feel right at home with the friendly fire rules in Zombicide.
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Greg R.
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warpi9 wrote:
So unless you have a sniper skill, ranged attacks will target survivors first?

That seems kind of weird I guess I kinda liken it to the haste of battle and the confusion that occurs with all the zombies.

Like I said before this game seems more like a game based upon the video game dead rising.


Yes, its very much more of a video game zombie shooter than a simulation. Its super fun!
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Magic Pink
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warpi9 wrote:
So unless you have a sniper skill, ranged attacks will target survivors first?

That seems kind of weird I guess I kinda liken it to the haste of battle and the confusion that occurs with all the zombies.

Like I said before this game seems more like a game based upon the video game dead rising.


It's nothing like Dead Rising except that they both have zombies. It's exactly modeled on Left4Dead tho.

The ranged rules are dumb, plain and simple. If it was a chance to hit survivors it would work but auto hits are just ridiculous. We house ruled that rolls of 1 on ranged attacks hit any survivors in the zone or in zones within the line of fire. It works perfectly. Sniper skill eliminates that as does the scope.
 
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Alan Reid Jr
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Auto hits are necessary for balance. There is NO reason to have melee over ranged in this game if you ignore the friendly fire. My play group tonight decided to ignore it and everyone just kept swapping out melee for ranged.

Not having friendly fire as written in the rules trivialized the game for us.
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Scott Hill
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Fizzster wrote:
Auto hits are necessary for balance. There is NO reason to have melee over ranged in this game if you ignore the friendly fire. My play group tonight decided to ignore it and everyone just kept swapping out melee for ranged.

Not having friendly fire as written in the rules trivialized the game for us.


This is what I thought would be the case when I read the rules.

However, I did have one query about it - what about weapons that operate both as melee and ranged weapons?!

Do you use the friendly fire rules whenever you use these weapons (i.e. whether shooting into another zone than, or within, the zone the character is in)?

Or only when they're used as ranged weapons (i.e. when shooting into another zone from the one the character is in)?

I can certainly imagine using a gun as a melee weapon in a way that doesn't involve firing it (e.g. pistol whipping), so maybe they should be treated differently in the different circumstances.
 
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David Miller
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Fizzster wrote:
Auto hits are necessary for balance. There is NO reason to have melee over ranged in this game if you ignore the friendly fire. My play group tonight decided to ignore it and everyone just kept swapping out melee for ranged.

Not having friendly fire as written in the rules trivialized the game for us.


We tried the alternate ranged and I think it made the game too easy for us. Mainly because with plenty of ammo cards and reroll skills we always just rolled when we got a 1. Before getting those cards or skills we were afraid of getting shot but after we were wading into melee with the shooters firing.

I didn't tell my friends that we're playing with the alternate rule and just told them that's how the game was played. After we finished I told them that we had changed the rules to the 1's. Both of them said that they thought we should've kept it the original way because it is way too easy changing it.
 
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Thiago Aranha
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
However, I did have one query about it - what about weapons that operate both as melee and ranged weapons?!

The rules don't allow for a ranged weapon to be used as a melee weapon, you can't really club someone with your rifle stock. If it's a gun, you're firing it, no matter the range. So friendly fire rules are always in effect.

Of course, Ma's Shotgun is an exception, but that's really two weapons in one, one ranged and one melee, and you just choose which one to use at any given time.
 
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Scott Hill
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Loophole Master wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
However, I did have one query about it - what about weapons that operate both as melee and ranged weapons?!

The rules don't allow for a ranged weapon to be used as a melee weapon, you can't really club someone with your rifle stock. If it's a gun, you're firing it, no matter the range. So friendly fire rules are always in effect.

Of course, Mas's Shotgun is an exception, but that's really two weapons in one, one ranged and one melee, and you just choose which one to use at any given time.


Ah... OK. Having not got the game yet, I've not seen Ma's Shotgun, but, if there's a weapon that is specifically melee/ranged, beyond it simply being a ranged weapon with 0 minimum range, then that would indeed imply that friendly fire rules always apply whenever ranged weapons are fired.
 
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David Hoffman
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We had a discussion over whether a melee weapon like the chainsaw might be subject to the same rules re: friendly fire.

We liked the limitation on ranged weapons. It forced us to think about our actions in a way that indiscriminately firing into a crowd of zombies surrounding a survivor -- without having to worry about harming that survivor -- wouldn't have required.

This is a great game!
 
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Greg R.
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warpi9 wrote:
So unless you have a sniper skill, ranged attacks will target survivors first?

That seems kind of weird I guess I kinda liken it to the haste of battle and the confusion that occurs with all the zombies.


Ok, so after quite a few plays under my belt, this rule totally annoys me and doesn't seem right if we're factoring in experience. You would think that after killing a few zombies, the wielder of the weapon would learn how to aim better even in the heat of battle with zombies all around.

Here is a house rule that we've added. When firing a ranged weapon into a zone with zombies and survivors, roll one die after rolling for damage but before assigning damage. Depending on the survivors experience level, refer to the chart(?) below

Experience-------------Successful Roll
Blue-------------------5+
Yellow-----------------4+
Orange-----------------3+
Red--------------------2+

On a successful roll, the player can ignore the rule to assign damage to the survivor(s) first. Players must follow the other zombie damage assignment rules, walkers first, fatties and Aboms next, then runners.

We've used this in two play-throughs (one win, one loss) so far and we think it works pretty well. Yes, it gives an advantage but no so much that it makes the game any easier.

Let me know what you guys think.
 
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Thiago Aranha
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Well then, if the Red Level survivor is such a crack shot, why can't he kill the Fatty before the Walkers, if he so desires? Maybe add another dice roll and chart for that?

I understand where you're coming from, but I just feel that house-ruling this is simply not in the spirit of the game.
 
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Greg R.
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Loophole Master wrote:
Well then, if the Red Level survivor is such a crack shot, why can't he kill the Fatty before the Walkers, if he so desires? Maybe add another dice roll and chart for that?


HA! Sarcasm.

Loophole Master wrote:

I understand where you're coming from, but I just feel that house-ruling this is simply not in the spirit of the game.


I disagree. I think its very much in the spirit of the game as far as leveling up goes. It also makes for those close call moments that really make the game for us. I'm not saying that everyone should do this or that it should even be an official variant. This makes the game more fun for us and after all, I should have fun playing a game that I spend a good amount of money on, right?
 
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Thiago Aranha
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TurquoiseKnight wrote:
HA! Sarcasm.

Yes, it was sarcasm, but I didn't mean it to be offensive. Sorry if it might have come off this way. I was just saying that if you add this extra degree of "realism", then to maintain consistency you'd have to add several other house rules to keep everything on the same level.

But I agree, whatever works for you and your group is certainly the best solution. I was just offering my opinion.
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Greg R.
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Loophole Master wrote:
TurquoiseKnight wrote:
HA! Sarcasm.

Yes, it was sarcasm, but I didn't mean it to be offensive. Sorry if it might have come off this way. I was just saying that if you add this extra degree of "realism", then to maintain consistency you'd have to add several other house rules to keep everything on the same level.


Thanks. We don't want to rewrite the game. We like it very much the way it is, except for that one rule. Who knows, when the expansion comes out there may be a slew of rule adjustments.
 
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Louis Perrochon
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The pistol is 0-1 (can use in melee and range), too.

I interpreted the rules as no friendly fire rule if you use it in the same zone. It's much easier to hit your intended target at close distance.
 
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Scott Hill
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Having played the game now, I agree with Loophole Master.

And, whilst this was a rule I immediately thought I would house rule (probably with a die roll, similar to what is suggested above), I found that when reviewing the experience after the game had finished, I realised that the rule actually makes a lot of sense, and forces you to really think tactically about whether to engage the Zombies in melee, or to try taking the out in a ranged attack, and in what order you do the various actions involved.
 
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Thiago Aranha
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perrochon wrote:
The pistol is 0-1 (can use in melee and range), too.

A gun going down to range 0 does not mean Melee combat. It just means you can fire into the same Zone you're in. A Ranged weapon will always do Ranged combat.
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Scott Hill
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perrochon wrote:
The pistol is 0-1 (can use in melee and range), too.

I interpreted the rules as no friendly fire rule if you use it in the same zone. It's much easier to hit your intended target at close distance.


The implication from what Loophole Master said earlier in the thread is that Ma's Shotgun explicitly acts as either Ranged OR Melee, in a sense more than it simply have a 0-X range stat.

Which would imply that normal 0-X range weapons can not be used in 'melee mode', just that they may be used 'at range 0'.

But I've not seen the said card, so I may be mis-reading what Loophole posted.

Could someone perhaps post a picture of the Ma's Shotgun card?
 
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Mike Malley
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For Ma's Shotgun, the card reads Blade 0, Gun 0-1 for the range stats.
 
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Scott Hill
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caffeinehead wrote:
For Ma's Shotgun, the card reads Blade 0, Gun 0-1 for the range stats.


Thanks.

That does indeed imply that normal guns are not considered as 'melee' weapons when used at range 0.
 
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