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Subject: Sequel? rss

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Jeff White
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There was once talk of a sequel to this game. Anything ever happening there?
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Everything between now and the next game is just killing time
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I have no idea how you managed to do it but it does not bode well for a sequel, perhaps a prequel?

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Lee Massey
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Jeff, Last time that I posted this question in 2010, Grant Wylie said it would be released in 2010 but have heard nothing since. I assume the sequel is DOA.
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Jeff White
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Matchstickman wrote:
I have no idea how you managed to do it but it does not bode well for a sequel, perhaps a prequel?



Hahahaha...what the?
 
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Jeff White
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JackFlash wrote:
Jeff, Last time that I posted this question in 2010, Grant Wylie said it would be released in 2010 but have heard nothing since. I assume the sequel is DOA.:(


Sad indeed.
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grant wylie
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A sequel is in playtesting. It is a bit more detailed and involves Indians, cowboys, and cavalry.
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Jeff White
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cartking24 wrote:
A sequel is in playtesting. It is a bit more detailed and involves Indians, cowboys, and cavalry.


Will the sequel play with the first game or will it be totally stand alone?
 
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Stan Hilinski
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It is standalone, so it is not a sequel. However, you can play all the old scenarios with the new rules.
 
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Jeff White
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So they will be compatible and this game won't become obsolete?
 
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David Wasson
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Obsolete?. How does a game ever become "obsolete"?
 
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Nigel Wright
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Builder wrote:
Obsolete?. How does a game ever become "obsolete"?


Worthington's Hold the Line and Hold the Line: French and Indian War Expansion Set 're-implemented' their earlier Clash for a Continent: Battles of the American Revolution and French & Indian War, and you can use the latter rules and components to play the land battles in the earlier game and it's sister For Honor and Glory: War of 1812 Land and Naval Battles. I joined the party with Hold the Line, but picked up the earlier games to get those scenarios.

Unlike Advanced Squad Leader and Squad Leader where I was there from day one, but now only keep a copy of the original Squad Leader and won't touch the expansions or successors.

And don't get me started on Dan Verssen's Leader series, where I own everything going

Anyway I'm off to get a second copy of Cowboys!
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Stan Hilinski
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I started working on a sequel a couple years. Grant of WG suggested that instead of a sequel, I do a new game, so that's what I did. Cowboys is a very simple game, almost a party game. I wanted to do something more complex but a lot simpler than Gunslinger. The result is "Apache."

The game is still man to man. The maps are still 1" squares. The rest is different. One can play Cowboys with the Apache rules and components (cards, tables, etc). Actually, it could work with Apache rules and Cowboys components. I think it may even be possible to play Apache with the Cowboys rules, but I'd have to think about that.
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M King
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shilinski wrote:
I started working on a sequel a couple years. Grant of WG suggested that instead of a sequel, I do a new game, so that's what I did. Cowboys is a very simple game, almost a party game. I wanted to do something more complex but a lot simpler than Gunslinger. The result is "Apache."

The game is still man to man. The maps are still 1" squares. The rest is different. One can play Cowboys with the Apache rules and components (cards, tables, etc). Actually, it could work with Apache rules and Cowboys components. I think it may even be possible to play Apache with the Cowboys rules, but I'd have to think about that.


Any estimate of how long this will be in play testing? Cowboys is too simple for me, but a game between it and Gunslinger would be just what I'm looking for.
 
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David Wasson
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If you are looking for something a little more than "Cowboys", but not as detailed as "Gunslinger" I would suggest "Outlaws: Adventures in the Old West". This basically a copy of a previous post I made for another person interested in Western themed games.

It is true that Outlaws is a "Print and Play" game, so, this may put some folks off. It is quite similar to Cowboys, but has a bit more detail. Many of the additions that were made in the "advanced rules" for Cowboys, are already present in Outlaws. If you don't want to print your own copy of Outlaws, you can use the Outlaws rules and use all of the game boards and markers from Cowboys. You will have to make your own set of wound chits and upgrade to the action tracks that Outlaws uses. Or, you could still use the "variable wound" rule from Cowboys. In Outlaws, you can stow one weapon and draw another. This is indicated on the action track as well as which hand a pistol is held. A rifle takes both hands. You can also move a characted diagonaly, it just costs more movement points for the second diagonal movement. There are lots of little things like this in Outlaws that I think that any fan of Cowboys would enjoy. It is a great rule set.

I would surely like to see movement on the development of "Cowboys" as much as anyone. It would be nice to get a preview of the "Apache" rules even if not quite finished. It would be fun to see just where "Apache" is going. Perhaps even soliciting thoughts and ideas from the folks that would be playing Apache after reviewing the rules.
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Stan Hilinski
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oneoldgamer wrote:
Any estimate of how long this will be in play testing? Cowboys is too simple for me, but a game between it and Gunslinger would be just what I'm looking for.


My plan is to submit the game to WG by the end of this month (Oct 2012). I've turned over my art. Next are the cards. I am still editing and re-editing the rules and playbook. I need to get some other eyes on them. If I knew how to do it, I'd establish a CSW forum where I could ramble on and on about it.

I have taken it out to the WBC and Prezcon. If you happened by and saw some folks playing with cowboy and Apache miniatures on a geomorphic map, then it was us. The game won't have miniatures. I bought and painted some 28 mm figures for my copy. Anyhow, the game was met with enthusiasm, so I was guardedly pleased. There is always this terrible fear that what you've worked on for a few years is really just a steaming pile of crap.
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David Wasson
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Please, ramble on about it here! We're all listening!
 
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Stan Hilinski
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Well, a few things. For the new maps, I created 8" x 8" map tiles (12 of them, 2 sides) so one could fit them together in lots of ways to make lots of maps. You can't do that with C:WotG.

I dumped the stand-up figures because I need to be able to flip them over to show a "played out" status.

I'm using a 12-sided die. I replaced the shooting table, the card deck -- well, everything else, really. There is now a 28-card Cowboy deck, a 28-card Apache deck, and a 36-card "Bangtail" deck. Each Bangtail card has a bunch of random fields. By using it, I got rid of a gazillion look-up tables, so, for example, you need a random direction, you draw a Bangtail and look at "Direction."

I replaced the cowboy "mats" with Fighter Cards because I no longer track ammo, so it doesn't have to be so big.

The big stars are the Fighters -- Cowboys and Apaches. There are also Extras, which were called Town Folk in CWotG, on the Cowboy side. On the Apache side, there is a new character type called a Shadow. Apaches hide in Shadows. Each Shadow secretly conceals 0, 1, or 2 Apaches. You can't shoot at a Shadow; you have to search it. Shadows move and shoot. Even empty Shadows shoot!

I have 12 episodes (scenarios) in the Playbook. An episode is played in turns, usually 6 or 7. Each turn has a Showdown phase, a Shootout phase, and a Roundup phase.

In the Showdown, players determine who goes first, and then certain events occur. Most episodes have a Showdown Event Table where you discover things like there was dynamite in that burning building or this Shadow over here is now over there.

The Shootout is the main phase. Players alternate taking "impulses" until both pass in succession. On your impulse, you may activate an on-the-prod (face-up) character you control, who gets 2 action points. When he's done, flip him over. He is now played out. Or you can play a card on any character you control, on the prod or played out. (You start with a hand of 5 or 6 cards.) The card lets him do actions. The upshot is every character gets one "go," but some characters get more than one depending on how you spend your cards.

In the Roundup, it's maintenance time where counters are flipped up or removed. Each player draws 2 new player cards.

And that's enough for now.
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David Wasson
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Hi Stan,

Wow, sounds fun!

The maps sound great! Can't wait to see them. You can always use more maps.

Thanks for a preview of the basic machanics. This is exactly what I am interested in. The "bangtail" deck sounds a little bit like the results deck in Gunslinger. This is a great way to solve many things. What are the function of the Cowboy cards? Are these for actions?

Ammo is not kept track of? Is this correct?

Thanks again for sharing.
 
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Bob
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Sounds intriguing Stan! thumbsup

Do you have any pics you can share?

 
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Stan Hilinski
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I don't have any images to share because it's all my prototype artwork. We have to wait until WG does something with it. What's on the maps? 12 map tiles, 2 sides. Five have building: farm house, bunk house, barn, trading post, and outpost. I've added brush and rock squares, grass, weeds, dry wash, buttes, canyons, and cliffs.

The cowboy and Apache cards have events that twist the game. The cowboy cards emphasize shooting; the apache cards focus on movement and brawling. They also introduce special events such as:
A cowboy on a horse throws a rope around a victim and drags him down the road.
An Apache slips down the side of his horse using it for cover.
A cowboy drops to the ground, rolls over, and fires his gun at the enemy who stands slackjawed watching him.
A cowboy fan-fires his rifle a la Chuck Conners as "The Rifleman."
An Apache jumps on the back of a cowboy's horse, attacks him with a knife, and if the cowboy retreats or dies, he takes over the horse.

So on an impulse, you can activate an on-the-prod character, or you can use a card on any character.

Every card also has an icon picture in the corner of a Bullet or a Boot. Roughly 2/3 of the cards are Bullets. An icon represents a second event. A Bullet means you pick a character and he shoots his gun as an impulse. A boot means you pick a character and he does 1 or 2 action points worth of non-shooting actions. The point here is that with icons, no card is useless. Use it for its icon or for its event.

I don't track ammo anymore except for one-shot and two-shot weapons. I noticed that no one ever ran out of rifle ammo, and even pistol ammo did not exhaust very often. It just wasn't worth the bother of tracking it. So now if you roll a 12 on a shot (a miss), you draw a Bangtail, and if the "Gun" field says rifle or pistol matching what your man shot, that weapon is now empty.

Weapons in the game: Shooters: pistol, rifle, bow, shotgun, derringer, Sharp's Big Fifty buffalo gun. There are 1-shot versions of the rifle and pistol.
Brawling weapons: saber, Bowie Knife, tomahawk, lance, war club. Brawling is significant in this game.
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M King
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This sounds great. Can't wait to see it published.
 
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David Wasson
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Yes, this does sound great! Are the Apache and Cowboy cards drawn as you need one, or, do you have several in your "hand". The same question goes for the bangtail cards.
 
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Stan Hilinski
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Each player starts with a hand of 5 or 6 cards drawn from his player deck depending on the episode. Players draw two cards at the end of each turn during the Roundup phase. The cards are important. You draw a Bangtail when you need one. You don't have a hand of Bangtails.
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Montgomery Van
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I hate to dredge up such an old thread, but the talked about Apache 'sequel' sounds like a lot of fun.

Does the game designer or someone from WG have any further information on this?

Thanks!
 
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David Wasson
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It's been a year since the last post, an update would be interesting.
 
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