Recommend
34 
 Thumb up
 Hide
19 Posts

Armies of Oblivion: ASL Module 12» Forums » Reviews

Subject: ASL Noob Review: Armies of Oblivion rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Boots
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have finally come to my "final" noob review of the ASL system. I say final because I have yet to get the desert or pacific modules along with the Japanese, Chinese and Italians, so until Rising Sun and Hollow Legions are out, I can't really continue this module review series. Armies of Oblivion was also the final original module to be published by MMP - all the others since then have been revamps and reprints.

Armies of Oblivion

Thanks to mkirschenbaum for this image.

Armies of Oblivion (AoO) looks like any other Core Module - a pile of countersheets, some rules pages, some maps, some scenarios. Looking at this image, you'd have no idea that this module took 15 years to get made, and for many of those years was assumed by ASL gamers to be consigned to (haha) oblivion. For the ASL noob, that backstory is frankly irrelevant (though can be found easily by looking at other reviews of the game). What that backstory means for the ASL noob is that AoO was printed in one printing run six years ago, and nobody had a copy of it when it was last printed. It got snapped up in a very short period of time, and was a very high-quality module, packed with components. It is now hard to find on the secondary market, and will cost about $270+. The question then becomes, should you bother?

What's in it?

By this time in my review series, you probably already know the answer: maps, counters, overlays, Chapter H pages and scenarios. AoO also contains some errata pages for your ASL Rulebook and some errata counters.

You get maps 48, 49, 50, 51, and overlays Hi8-Hi12 (hills), Wd12, Wd34 (Woods), and the full-board river overlay Rv1.



Thanks to lesulm1 and bbhanson for these images

When they say armies - plural - they aren't joking. As you can see above, there are two versions of the Order of Battle (OoB) - one in axis minor green, one in axis minor green with German bluegrey borders. This is because some Axis Minor countries - chief among them the Hungarians - switched sides during the conflict and fought against other Axis Minors, so you need to be able to tell them apart when they fight each other. The Hungarian OoB is not strictly complete - it has no sniper counter. You're meant to use the German one, along with German concealment counters. Some people complained about the lack of a sniper counter, I think those complaints are more about the compulsion to have a counter for everything than a serious need for a separate two-tone sniper counter. There's also one niggling errata for the Hungarian vehicle crew counters - they should have been statted as 1-2-6 not 1-2-7. The ones recently released in Festung Budapest are correct. I will say one thing about the AoO counters - the die cutting is VERY nice. It's crisper and cleaner than even the newer modules, and much better than the old Avalon Hill ones.

Like Doomed Battalions III, the OoBs are heavy in the artillery and support weapon department, and have all sorts of fine-grained distinctions between different types of weapon. For example, there are four kinds of LMG - basic LMG, Italian, French and German LMGs. Each have different stats. With Hungarian colours as well that means eight different counters - just for LMGs. About half the artillery and tanks are duplicated in green and two-tone. Expect storage to be even more difficult than the Allied Minors. I managed to get the infantry sorted into one tray each of a hozan (along with the Finnish OoB from Beyond Valor III) by mixing the duplicated support weapons, guns and tanks. With different coloured counters there's no way you'll mix them up in play.

The scenarios are really not great for ASL noobs. With a fifteen year development time, they feel old. They are all long and huge, harking back to the days before jobs, families and mortgages, when ASL players could actually spend a weekend playing one scenario. You only get 11 of them (compared to 24 for the new repacked modules), so let's take a look at what the ASL Scenario Archive has to say. ONLY ONE SCENARIO UNDER 7 HOURS? This is NOT a noob-friendly module at all. The one playable scenario is Out of Cowardice, a fun-looking matchup between Yugoslavian Partisans and Hungarians with only a few armoured cars (my noob definition of 'playable' is "under 6 hours, 6 or less turns, less than three tanks a side"). At nearly 8 hours, Liberating Bessarabia might also be fairly good noob fare as it has no OBA and pits six tanks vs. four tanks - not too large on armour overhead. Otherwise they are all so large, long and so armour-intensive, that I've pretty much given up hope I'll ever play any of them.

The maps are the main reason you'll buy this module. There's a new city board, an urban-rural transition board, a high wooded hill and another crossroads village surrounded by fields. You really can get away with just ordering these from MMP. The overlays are all but useless. I've seen one scenario outside this module use one of them, and that was a third-party scenario that used the River overlay. Once again, you'll find that the newer the overlay, the less it gets used. This may change in future as designers utilise more of the system, ut the overlays from Croix de Guerre remain the most useful.

Errata

Armies of Oblivion contains several pages of errata rules for chapters A, D and S. It is HIGHLY Unlikely you've managed to get chapter D (Deluxe ASL) or chapter S (Solitaire ASL), so two thirds of them aren't particularly useful for you. The Chapter A pages mainly deal with the new nationality distinctions for Axis Minors, as well as a re-wording of the Human Wave rules that make them much easier to understand (but take up much more page space), and some tweaks to the building control rules. These errata are also available on the MMP page here, so you probably don't need the hardcopy pages at all.

The errata counters will confuse most noobs, and may lead people to buy this overpriced module when they don't need it. You get some German, British, Russian, Italian and American errata counters, but you'll have most of these already. If you have BVIII the only German counter you don't have from this set is the Sturmtiger, as all the errata have been incorporated into Beyond Valor III. With the Russians, the only new counter is the Komsomolet (which I know you're all dying to get into action). All the British counters are duplicates of For King and Country II counters, where the same errata were incorporated. The Italian and American counters are "necessary" if you own those OoBs, since neither OoB has been reprinted since AoO. If you have Yanks and not Hollow Legions, you probably don't need to bother as there are all of three replacement counters representing one rarely used tank - the T8.

Dependencies again

Being the last module, you'd expect Armies of Oblivion's dependencies to be hellish. You wouldn't be wrong. Other than included components, you'll need boards 2, 9, 11, 18, 22, 40, 41, 42, 43, 45, 46 and 47, Overlays Hi2, Hi5, RR1, RR4, RR5, RR6, RR14, X12 and P1. That last is, inexplicably for Eastern Europe, a Rice Paddy overlay. To get all these you need Beyond Valor III, Yanks, Doomed Battalions III, Croix de Guerre, Gung Ho and Action packs 1(or 3) and 2. Good luck with that, especially given Action pack 2's complete unavailability.

Conclusions

It's probably clear by this point that I don't think you need this module. I bought it thinking I could play some of the old Partisan! scenarios (some of which are pretty good, though a number of them use some bizarre setup rules, like oodles of wire counters as a barbed-wire fence, or a second map whose road network represents an underground set of tunnels). I have yet to play any of them. I also thought maybe the ASL journal scenarios, especially the three linked ones about the Czech paratroopers in Journal 7, might have been fun, but these have also fallen by the wayside. In fact, purchasing Armies of Oblivion made me go out of my way to find small, fast Axis Minor scenarios to play with my stupidly expensive counters, instead of finding and playing scenarios I already had. The best yet was one called Ferenc Josef Barracks from Rally Point 1, which concentrates on the Axis Minors, so is a definite must-buy if you do splurge on this dinosaur. Beyond this pack I have yet to find very many that are small, fast and playable in an evening.

I'll say this very clearly so it doesn't get lost in the wall of text above: ASL Noobs - DO NOT BUY ARMIES OF OBLIVION.

Even the useful components are at best situationally useful. Is a Sturmtiger really worth $270? When was the last time you used a Human Wave? Spend the money on something more fun, like some Friendly Fire or Le Franc Tireur scenario packs, or one of Bounding Fire Production's mega-packs (Blood and Jungle or Crucible of Steel). You really will survive until this one is re-issued - believe me.

A Side Note on ASL Development History

As I've gone through my modules and opened them up, I've noticed a trend. I think I've commented on this before but have been unable to locate it in my other reviews.

Over ASL's development history its various authors have become more obsessive about getting history "right". The earliest modules basically drew straight from Squad Leader, which got its counter values from a best-fit, "felt right" approach to the game. They seem to be mainly based on assumptions about the past gleaned from war movies, and that's OK. Commentators (especially Mark Pitcavage at Desperation Morale Central have noted that some scenarios depicted situations that "didn't really happen", or concentrated on elite units and well-known situations (Normandy, the SS, Kursk).

Later products, on the other hand were the results of years of perfectionist research, resulting in many more counters, much more complex OoBs, and MUCH longer wait times (see this module and Festung Budapest for examples - 15 and 8 years respectively). ASL gamers have aged along with their game, and they would see their historical interest as having matured - I personally don't see that more obsession with the details makes for a more "historical" game, but I am out of step with the majority of players it seems. To me it looks like all this obsessive research doesn't add a whole lot to the final product beyond wait times, production delays and unneeded complexity. If you want detail in your history, read a book, don't play a game.

The end result for the ASL noob is that the earlier modules are less ridiculous, counter-wise. The Orders of Battle are smaller and don't need to obsessively recreate every artillery piece and tankette. The maps, on the other hand, get better later in the piece, because they get more original and start to diverge a little. As I mentioned in my Croix de Guerre review, I am still ambivalent about overlays. And scenario-wise, my final word is that the ones MMP/Avalon Hill provide in core modules are not as good as their Journal and Action Pack offerings, or the newer ones being churned out by third party producers. Though they are often the product of the same obsessive research, they are more responsive to the desires of the community for shorter, faster games.

Final Word

Armies of Oblivion is unfortunately something of a Frankenstein's monster, taking the worst qualities from various parts of the ASL world - the ridiculous production times, current unavailabilty, over-complex Orders of Battle, and scenarios of draconian length. To reiterate - at $270+, avoid this module until it is reprinted (probably some time in 2035).

Pros
+ four new maps
+ really nice counters
+ mildly useful rule and counter errata

Cons
- The worst dependencies yet
- Scenario selection terrible for noobs
- Not many noob-friendly scenarios for Axis Minors available
- Massive duplication of counters making it hard to store
- Exorbitant cost

Links to my other ASL Noob Reviews:
The Rulebook
Beyond Valor III
Yanks
For King and Country II
Croix de Guerre
Doomed Battalions III

The ASL Noob Review Index Geeklist
35 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
mochara c
Canada
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Out of Cowardice


Hilariously appropriate, given your warnings of how daunting the remainder of the scenarios appear to be.

Great review - thanks.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Slyvanian Frog
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
moly19 wrote:
Quote:
Out of Cowardice


Hilariously appropriate, given your warnings of how daunting the remainder of the scenarios appear to be.

Great review - thanks.


Excellent review, and frankly I think, an honest appraisal of some of the foibles of die-hard ASL veterans to be aware of when making your own purchasing decisions.

You are right. Some of the mandated things that the ASL cabal thinks have to be in the game can turn out to be less than valuable to the bulk of ordinary players. I think there is a group out there that obsesses about having every last flak cannon that they might have read about existing in one three day battle in one of their obscure books in their obsessively built private "library." Then there is the bulk of wargamers, who like the system, but could do without additional chrome (which often straightjackets the game, and it is supposed to be a game) in an already chrome heavy system.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
mochara c
Canada
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
Then there is the bulk of wargamers, who like the system, but could do without additional chrome


To these gamers I say "behold the ASL Starter Kits", and there will be much rejoicing.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ruben Rigillo
Italy
Roma
Rm
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Boots!
Your reviews are the best (and only!) mean I have to find a way into ASL world...at last!
I owe just ASLSK 1, Partisan and Paratrooper modules.
I've just traded AH editions of the RB an BV....I'm happy to see that I didn't do a so bad bargain.
Unfortunately I traded the Action Pack 1 too...and this looks like a bad one!
Thanks to you now I know the next steps (RB, BVIII, FKaC, CdG).
Discovering there are a lot of Infantfy Only Scenarios has been a good new too.

Cheers

RRR
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boots
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Qwirz wrote:
Boots!
Your reviews are the best (and only!) mean I have to find a way into ASL world...at last!
I owe just ASLSK 1, Partisan and Paratrooper modules.
I've just traded AH editions of the RB an BV....I'm happy to see that I didn't do a so bad bargain.
Unfortunately I traded the Action Pack 1 too...and this looks like a bad one!
Thanks to you now I know the next steps (RB, BVIII, FKaC, CdG).
Discovering there are a lot of Infantfy Only Scenarios has been a good new too.

Cheers

RRR


Hey Ruben, welcome to the hobby and I'm glad my reviews are helpful!

If you've managed to get hold of action pack 1 that's never a bad thing, the maps are hard to get hold of in mounted form and the scenarios are good.

I'm just down on action pack 2 because it is the only place (other than MMP) to get maps 46 and 47 and will never be available again. MMP have solved that by making the maps individually available.

The paratrooper scenarios in particular are great.

-B
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ruben Rigillo
Italy
Roma
Rm
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
:-) sorry for my english, but I meant I gave AWAY AH edition of RB, BV and ACtion Pack 1!
I'll look for more and more NOOBS stuff reviews from you!

RRR
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boots
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Qwirz wrote:
:-) sorry for my english, but I meant I gave AWAY AH edition of RB, BV and ACtion Pack 1!
I'll look for more and more NOOBS stuff reviews from you!

RRR


That is a shame - don't worry too much though, you can get the Action Pack 1 maps from Action Pack 3, and the scenarios for free from the MMP website here.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boots
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
moly19 wrote:
Quote:
Then there is the bulk of wargamers, who like the system, but could do without additional chrome


To these gamers I say "behold the ASL Starter Kits", and there will be much rejoicing.


I agree in principle, but I personally found the Starter Kits to be a good 'first bite' but I wanted more. They leave out so much that is so fundamental to clever play in full ASL - bypass movement, concealment, deployment - that whenever I go back I feel a bit bereft. This is especially true of terrain - I really miss multi-level buildings, walls and hedges when I go back to the SKs. They add so much depth to the game.

My personal sweet spot isn't necessarily for more chrome though - I shy away from night, air support and OBA because where I am most comfortable is somewhere more complex than the Starter Kits but less complex than the full-on modular ASL experience.

Certainly the less chromey modules - BVIII, FKACII, Yanks, CdG - are my favourite. This is also why I'm looking forward less to the Pacific than I probably should do.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eoin Corrigan
Ireland
Wexford
Wexford
flag msg tools
designer
ASL Fanatic
badge
Royal Dublin Fusiliers "Spectamur Agendo"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hmmm.

I agree that $270 is a lot of money for an ASL module. Too much for me, so I'm very glad I purchased when available.

However, I think this review makes too much of the fact that AoO is not newcomer friendly. Of course it isn't - the focus of the module is the provision of the entire OoBs of the Axis Minor nations. Naturally, having provided the OoBs, the module then provides scenarios in which those OoBs are used. Yes, this results in a lot of large scenarios replete with guns and armour, however imagine the dissatisfaction if AoO's scenario set was dominated by small, infantry only actions suitable for a Starter Kit player graduating to full ASL.

The review states that the maps are the main resaon for purchasing this module. That's not the case. All of the maps can be picked up in the map pack. The real reason for buying AoO is to obtain the Axis Minor OoB. The potential buyer should bear in mind that it will be many years until AoO is reprinted, if at all.

My principal point is this - the review issues a blanked recommendation to the ASL newcomer not to buy AoO. I think this is poor advice, as it is far too general. Certainly, avoid AoO if you have no, or only a passing interest in the Axis Minors, unless money is no object. However, do seek to buy AoO if you have a strong interest in playing the Axis Minors and want access to the full AoO OoB (although note that much of the Hungarian OoB is avvailable in Festung Budapest). Bear in mind that some excellent scenarios, such as Mountain Hunters from the most recent Journal, require AoO for face-to-face play.

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boots
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Eoin Corrigan wrote:
However, I think this review makes too much of the fact that AoO is not newcomer friendly. Of course it isn't - the focus of the module is the provision of the entire OoBs of the Axis Minor nations. Naturally, having provided the OoBs, the module then provides scenarios in which those OoBs are used. Yes, this results in a lot of large scenarios replete with guns and armour, however imagine the dissatisfaction if AoO's scenario set was dominated by small, infantry only actions suitable for a Starter Kit player graduating to full ASL.


You do have a point... except that I'll reiterate that the reviews are intended as advice to a newcomer about what modules to purchase in order to get into full ASL. On the one hand, the mantra, even to noobs, is always "buy when available", and AoO is clearly NOT available. I would also argue that and by the time an ASL noob has graduated to the point where the nuance of Axis Minor scenarios offer a significantly different experience to the other available core modules, they don't really need to be reading noob reviews anymore...

Your advice, while sound for the experienced player, long-term collector with no shortage of money, was what led me to purchase this module at these prices. Are there some sour grapes? yes, but I don't think I make any bones about that in the review. I wanted this review to stand as an alternative set of advice to the advice I received on AoO. I really don't like the idea of ASL noobs fretting over not getting this particular module, because I personally don't think it's worth it.

Eoin Corrigan wrote:
My principal point is this - the review issues a blanked recommendation to the ASL newcomer not to buy AoO. I think this is poor advice, as it is far too general. Certainly, avoid AoO if you have no, or only a passing interest in the Axis Minors, unless money is no object. However, do seek to buy AoO if you have a strong interest in playing the Axis Minors and want access to the full AoO OoB (although note that much of the Hungarian OoB is avvailable in Festung Budapest). Bear in mind that some excellent scenarios, such as Mountain Hunters from the most recent Journal, require AoO for face-to-face play.


Fair enough, I can see where you're coming from - but my personal experience jars very much with yours. I have fallen for the core-set-completist argument, and now I have a lot of very expensive components I have barely used - chief among them axis and allied minors.

I think that while they are legitimate points, your qualifying statements - strong interest in Axis Minors, really want to play specific journal scenarios - apply to very few ASL players in their first two to three years of play. In my experience these players (myself included) seem to get a bit overwhelmed by the system, and can probably afford to wait until they either have the money or until a reprint comes along. Which comes back to my recommendation, which is aimed at noobs, not experienced players.

Thanks for your critical comments, by the way. I agree in hindsight that this review treats AoO a bit harshly, so I'm glad someone pointed it out. I still stand by what I said above in this post, however, and I stand by the general thrust of the review.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eoin Corrigan
Ireland
Wexford
Wexford
flag msg tools
designer
ASL Fanatic
badge
Royal Dublin Fusiliers "Spectamur Agendo"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Fair enough - I agree that most newcomer players will probably focus more on the non-minor nations.

However there are those, like myself, who are relative newcomers to the game (I began playing in earnest in 2009, just over 100 scenarios completed) and who have a strong appetite for the obscure and generally unloved elements of the system. I have a great fondness for Allied and Axis Minor actions.

Thanks for the review, by the way; I'll look forward to reading your thoughts on the Rising Sun PTO module, given its forthcoming publication.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Whip Cracker
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Eoin Corrigan wrote:
Hmmm.

I agree that $270 is a lot of money for an ASL module. Too much for me, so I'm very glad I purchased when available.

However, I think this review makes too much of the fact that AoO is not newcomer friendly. Of course it isn't - the focus of the module is the provision of the entire OoBs of the Axis Minor nations. Naturally, having provided the OoBs, the module then provides scenarios in which those OoBs are used. Yes, this results in a lot of large scenarios replete with guns and armour, however imagine the dissatisfaction if AoO's scenario set was dominated by small, infantry only actions suitable for a Starter Kit player graduating to full ASL.

The review states that the maps are the main resaon for purchasing this module. That's not the case. All of the maps can be picked up in the map pack. The real reason for buying AoO is to obtain the Axis Minor OoB. The potential buyer should bear in mind that it will be many years until AoO is reprinted, if at all.

My principal point is this - the review issues a blanked recommendation to the ASL newcomer not to buy AoO. I think this is poor advice, as it is far too general. Certainly, avoid AoO if you have no, or only a passing interest in the Axis Minors, unless money is no object. However, do seek to buy AoO if you have a strong interest in playing the Axis Minors and want access to the full AoO OoB (although note that much of the Hungarian OoB is avvailable in Festung Budapest). Bear in mind that some excellent scenarios, such as Mountain Hunters from the most recent Journal, require AoO for face-to-face play.



I think the last copy on ebay went for £276 - c$400? I dont have a problem with historical accuracy after all I see nothing wrong with learning about history as you play a game. Then it becomes more of a relevant experience - I suppose it would allow some players to reflect from a historical point of view. That said most maps are abstract representations anyway so why bother with the OOB. I dont entirely agree about the longer games - they seem to get a lot of stick. Im mean in the day of age of VASL whats wrong with saving and closing a game for next time? Why does it have to finish in one sitting. I have no experience with campaign games but like the idea of using forces from a previous linked scenario which makes won more cautious/realistic in approach to the game.
I missed the sale at MMP to get me a set but thats ok. I can wait. You learn to wait in this game - no criticism, just an observation
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Perry Cocke
United States
Baltimore
Maryland
flag msg tools
publisher
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree that AoO at a high price should be the lowest on this list of priorities for any newbie.

I also agree with the advice elsewhere in this thread: "buy when available".
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hong Kong Wargamer
msg tools
badge
http://www.hongkongwargamer.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hello Boots, I am the n00b who's accumulating core modules at the moment and I can't tell you how much I appreciate your reviews. You just saved me from buying AoB by the way. Thanks!!!!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fen Yan
United States
La Mirada
California
flag msg tools
Boots01 wrote:

Errata

Armies of Oblivion contains several pages of errata rules for chapters A, D and S. It is HIGHLY Unlikely you've managed to get chapter D (Deluxe ASL) or chapter S (Solitaire ASL), so two thirds of them aren't particularly useful for you. The Chapter A pages mainly deal with the new nationality distinctions for Axis Minors, as well as a re-wording of the Human Wave rules that make them much easier to understand (but take up much more page space), and some tweaks to the building control rules. These errata are also available on the MMP page here, so you probably don't need the hardcopy pages at all.


Just to clarify, Chapter D is Vehicles, Deluxe is Chapter J.

Nice review.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Mackenzie
msg tools
Regarding paratrooper scenarios that is a 10-4! Agree 100%
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Mackenzie
msg tools
Once you get into the heart of the game with all its little intricacies (not sure on spelling :/ ) you will be ahunting that module - mark my words
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kai Axford
United States
Plano
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MMP just opened up the Pre-Order on this for 2018. Get it now or pay the eBay rates!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.