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Subject: Zombie spawn in buildings? rss

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Sean McDonald
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Do you spawn all the zombies in all tiles of a building when you open a door, or only the tile with the door (and the next tile when you have LOS with it)?

I was spawning all tiles, but with only 1 exit, and zombies splitting equally, and the shape of the buildings, i had 1 fatty turn into 5 by the time it reached the door. This does not seem right.
 
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Scott Hill
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Which scenario?
 
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Greg R.
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DropDeadCriminal wrote:
Do you spawn all the zombies in all tiles of a building when you open a door, or only the tile with the door (and the next tile when you have LOS with it)?

I was spawning all tiles, but with only 1 exit, and zombies splitting equally, and the shape of the buildings, i had 1 fatty turn into 5 by the time it reached the door. This does not seem right.


When you crack open a door, you reveal all zombies in the building. Point to a room and draw a card. Place zombies in that room as indicated by the card. Rinse, repeat until you do all rooms in the building that you just opened up. Resume play.

Zombies spawned at spawn points inside closed building do not move since they cannot hear you.

Does this clarify it for you?
 
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Justin Robben
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I'd like to piggy back onto this OP's question...and check if we played scenario #02 correctly.

The survivors start immediately adjacent to a closed door. We used our first turn to open the door, move in and started spawning zombies.
But we then realized that, in this set-up, that entire stretch of 3 tales was technically connected. Even though each tile contained its own door into the building (making it look like 3 separate buildings). Because the interiors always line up to create open doorways so you can travel from room to room... We thought that would be one huge building and not the intention of the game. So, we spawned only in the first tiles building, the 3 rooms that "building" contained.

Then, when we cleared out that room and we moved into the next "building" immediately adjacent, we spawned zombies there...
Then, we broke through that buildin's door and spilled into the street because it was getting hairy outside and we didn't want to get trapped.

Did we do this spawning correctly?
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Scott Hill
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TurquoiseKnight wrote:
Zombies spawned at spawn points inside closed building do not move since they cannot hear you.


Is that specified in the rules somewhere, and if so where?

Kalidor wrote:
I'd like to piggy back onto this OP's question...and check if we played scenario #02 correctly.

The survivors start immediately adjacent to a closed door. We used our first turn to open the door, move in and started spawning zombies.
But we then realized that, in this set-up, that entire stretch of 3 tales was technically connected. Even though each tile contained its own door into the building (making it look like 3 separate buildings). Because the interiors always line up to create open doorways so you can travel from room to room... We thought that would be one huge building and not the intention of the game. So, we spawned only in the first tiles building, the 3 rooms that "building" contained.

Then, when we cleared out that room and we moved into the next "building" immediately adjacent, we spawned zombies there...
Then, we broke through that buildin's door and spilled into the street because it was getting hairy outside and we didn't want to get trapped.

Did we do this spawning correctly?


The way I read the rules and looking at that scenario, I'd say no - it's one 3-tile-building, with 3 exterior doors, so as soon as you crack one of the doors, you populate the entire 3-tile-building's worth of rooms.

You could always add interior doors in the internal door spaces in order to play it the way you played it.
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Justin Robben
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TurquoiseKnight wrote:


Zombies spawned at spawn points inside closed building do not move since they cannot hear you.



Oh...I think I missed this rule...

So, is the opposite true as well then? If the survivors are all inside a room and no zombie in the streets has LoS to them none of the outdoor zombies will move??? They just sort of...pass their turn?!

I figured they would hear our noise through the door we chopped down...And, basically, every non-attacking zombie moves every turn...

Thanks for any clarification!
 
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Greg R.
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
TurquoiseKnight wrote:
Zombies spawned at spawn points inside closed building do not move since they cannot hear you.


Is that specified in the rules somewhere, and if so where?



This is assumed thematically since the rules do not say anything about walls and sound, just line of sight. Once a door is opened, however, zombies move toward sound through the open doorway. This is how we've been playing. We could be doing it wrong but this is what made the most sense to us.
 
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Sean McDonald
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TurquoiseKnight wrote:
DropDeadCriminal wrote:
Do you spawn all the zombies in all tiles of a building when you open a door, or only the tile with the door (and the next tile when you have LOS with it)?

I was spawning all tiles, but with only 1 exit, and zombies splitting equally, and the shape of the buildings, i had 1 fatty turn into 5 by the time it reached the door. This does not seem right.


When you crack open a door, you reveal all zombies in the building. Point to a room and draw a card. Place zombies in that room as indicated by the card. Rinse, repeat until you do all rooms in the building that you just opened up. Resume play.

Zombies spawned at spawn points inside closed building do not move since they cannot hear you.

Does this clarify it for you?


Ya, that what i was doing.
In #3 I opened the south west door of the building on the north side but did not enter.
In the room 1 west of the north east most room i spawned a fatty (the room with all the chairs in it). (1 fatty)
The first zombie move the fatty becomes 2 because going south and going west both get to the door in the same number of moves. (2 fatties)
the next move the northern of the 2 fattys splits again (same reason). (3 fatties)
the next move rince and repeat. (4 fatties)
and again the next move. (5 fatties)
at this point i opened another door to stop the madness, but it could potentially hapoened again. (6 fatties)

that just does not seem very thematic.

i think as a house rule i am saying a zombie that spawned indoors can only split once until it exits the building.
 
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Scott Hill
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DropDeadCriminal wrote:
In #3 I opened the south west door of the building on the north side but did not enter.
In the room 1 west of the north east most room i spawned a fatty (the room with all the chairs in it). (1 fatty)
The first zombie move the fatty becomes 2 because going south and going west both get to the door in the same number of moves. (2 fatties)
the next move the northern of the 2 fattys splits again (same reason). (3 fatties)
the next move rince and repeat. (4 fatties)
and again the next move. (5 fatties)
at this point i opened another door to stop the madness, but it could potentially hapoened again. (6 fatties)

NO, NO, NO!

You're doing it wrong!

You don't measure the distance in like centimeters! You measure it in zones!

So, after the Fatty first spawned, it was 'two zones worth of movement' for it to get out of the building by going south (1 zone south, 1 zone out), and 'three zones worth of movement' for it to get out by going east (1 zone east, 1 zone south, 1 zone out).

So, he should have just gone south, and then out, no splitting required.
 
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Scott Hill
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TurquoiseKnight wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
TurquoiseKnight wrote:
Zombies spawned at spawn points inside closed building do not move since they cannot hear you.


Is that specified in the rules somewhere, and if so where?



This is assumed thematically since the rules do not say anything about walls and sound, just line of sight. Once a door is opened, however, zombies move toward sound through the open doorway. This is how we've been playing. We could be doing it wrong but this is what made the most sense to us.


I think if it was meant to be played that way, they'd have explicitly stated that.

I mean, for example, in scenario 02 Y-Zone, if for some reason the players decide to do nothing on turn one with any of the survivors, so they're still at the start point on turn 2, and by some fluke you only ever draw one 'spawn 1 zombie' card for the lower-right spawn zone on turn 1, and draw 'spawn 0 zombies' cards on every other occasion, and the players then spend the next 3 hours doing nothing but using all 3 of their survivor(s) actions 'making some noise', would you have that zombie just stay on the lower-right spawn zone, because he can't hear-round-corners too??? (I mean, there's line-of-sight rules, but no line-of-hearing rules, so they must not be able to hear round corners too!)

Or, in the tutorial mission (00) they could all just happily stay in the room where they start, searching to their heart's content, until they're all armed to the teeth with the best combination of weapons, with an every growing mass of zombies standing on the spawn zone, and the two starting walkers going nowhere.
 
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Mike Malley
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
You're doing it wrong!

You don't measure the distance in like centimeters! You measure it in zones!

So, after the Fatty first spawned, it was 'two zones worth of movement' for it to get out of the building by going south (1 zone south, 1 zone out), and 'three zones worth of movement' for it to get out by going east (1 zone east, 1 zone south, 1 zone out).

So, he should have just gone south, and then out, no splitting required.

If i'm understanding Sean correctly, he opened the 2C door, not the 4B one.
 
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Mike Malley
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
TurquoiseKnight wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
TurquoiseKnight wrote:
Zombies spawned at spawn points inside closed building do not move since they cannot hear you.
Is that specified in the rules somewhere, and if so where?
This is assumed thematically since the rules do not say anything about walls and sound, just line of sight. Once a door is opened, however, zombies move toward sound through the open doorway. This is how we've been playing. We could be doing it wrong but this is what made the most sense to us.
I think if it was meant to be played that way, they'd have explicitly stated that.

I mean, for example, in scenario 02 Y-Zone, if for some reason the players decide to do nothing on turn one with any of the survivors, so they're still at the start point on turn 2, and by some fluke you only ever draw one 'spawn 1 zombie' card for the lower-right spawn zone on turn 1, and draw 'spawn 0 zombies' cards on every other occasion, and the players then spend the next 3 hours doing nothing but using all 3 of their survivor(s) actions 'making some noise', would you have that zombie just stay on the lower-right spawn zone, because he can't hear-round-corners too??? (I mean, there's line-of-sight rules, but no line-of-hearing rules, so they must not be able to hear round corners too!)

Or, in the tutorial mission (00) they could all just happily stay in the room where they start, searching to their heart's content, until they're all armed to the teeth with the best combination of weapons, with an every growing mass of zombies standing on the spawn zone, and the two starting walkers going nowhere.

Am i missing something, or are you two saying the same thing?
 
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Scott Hill
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caffeinehead wrote:
If i'm understanding Sean correctly, he opened the 2C door, not the 4B one.


The building in the top-left corner of the map?

Where's the "room with all the chairs" in that building?

And, even if it were that building, and the Fatty spawned in the bathroom (top-left room, with the objective marker in it), it still would only have split the once, on exiting that room.
 
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Scott Hill
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caffeinehead wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
TurquoiseKnight wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
TurquoiseKnight wrote:
Zombies spawned at spawn points inside closed building do not move since they cannot hear you.
Is that specified in the rules somewhere, and if so where?
This is assumed thematically since the rules do not say anything about walls and sound, just line of sight. Once a door is opened, however, zombies move toward sound through the open doorway. This is how we've been playing. We could be doing it wrong but this is what made the most sense to us.
I think if it was meant to be played that way, they'd have explicitly stated that.

I mean, for example, in scenario 02 Y-Zone, if for some reason the players decide to do nothing on turn one with any of the survivors, so they're still at the start point on turn 2, and by some fluke you only ever draw one 'spawn 1 zombie' card for the lower-right spawn zone on turn 1, and draw 'spawn 0 zombies' cards on every other occasion, and the players then spend the next 3 hours doing nothing but using all 3 of their survivor(s) actions 'making some noise', would you have that zombie just stay on the lower-right spawn zone, because he can't hear-round-corners too??? (I mean, there's line-of-sight rules, but no line-of-hearing rules, so they must not be able to hear round corners too!)

Or, in the tutorial mission (00) they could all just happily stay in the room where they start, searching to their heart's content, until they're all armed to the teeth with the best combination of weapons, with an every growing mass of zombies standing on the spawn zone, and the two starting walkers going nowhere.

Am i missing something, or are you two saying the same thing?


You're missing something.

He's saying that zombies can't hear (and so don't move towards) survivors that are behind locked doors.

I'm saying that they can (and do).
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Mike Malley
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As far as i can tell, your first large paragraph agrees with what he says. And in the tutorial mission, i see nothing that reads that you can't stay there and keep searching, but the longer you're in there, the more zombies you'll have to deal with.
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Mike Malley
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
caffeinehead wrote:
If i'm understanding Sean correctly, he opened the 2C door, not the 4B one.
The building in the top-left corner of the map?

Where's the "room with all the chairs" in that building?

And, even if it were that building, and the Fatty spawned in the bathroom (top-left room, with the objective marker in it), it still would only have split the once, on exiting that room.

The door on 2C; the room on 4B.
 
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Daniel Schulz
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The rules say that zombies that can't see survivors will move to the zone with the most noise, taking the shortest route. There is nothing in there about walls or doors blocking noise. Since zombies can't open doors, if there is no legal route, the zombies will not move.

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caffeinehead wrote:
As far as i can tell, your first large paragraph agrees with what he says. And in the tutorial mission, i see nothing that reads that you can't stay there and keep searching, but the longer you're in there, the more zombies you'll have to deal with.

I'm using examples of the logical result of what he's saying to illustrate why I think it's incorrect.

And:
horrido wrote:
The rules say that zombies that can't see survivors will move to the zone with the most noise, taking the shortest route. There is nothing in there about walls or doors blocking noise. Since zombies can't open doors, if there is no legal route, the zombies will not move.

Let's look at what the rules actually say:

Zombicide Rulebook wrote:
Phase 2 – Movement.
The Zombies who have not attacked during the first phase
move one Zone towards a Survivor they can see.
If they see Survivor in different Zones, they move towards
the noisiest group (REMEM BER: a Survivor counts as a
Noise token).
If they see nobody, they move towards the Zone that contains
the most Noise tokens.
The Zombies always move following the shortest route. If there
is more than one route of the same length, the Zombies split
into groups of the same number to follow all possible routes.
They also split up if different Zones contain the same number
of Noise tokens. If necessary, add Zombies so that all
groups contain the same number! The Abomination never
splits. The players decide which direction it goes.


Note: It says If they see nobody, they move towards the Zone that contains the most Noise tokens.

The key word here being 'towards'. So, if the survivors are the other side of a locked door from the zombies, then the zombies will move towards the survivors, until they reach a point where they can go no further without moving away from them, and then stop. It does not say that the zombies have to be able to reach the players, nor that walls or corners 'block' the sound. Just that the Zombies "move towards the Zone that contains the most Noise tokens".

caffeinehead wrote:
The door on 2C; the room on 4B.


I don't see how you read that from what he posted.


Oh, actually, sorry, re-read what he wrote - I was looking at the wrong scenario!

So, I think you're right.

Hmm...

I'd split every time, in that case - that's what the rules say to do.
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Mike Malley
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We'll need to wait for Sean then, because i don't see how you don't.

In #3 I opened the south west door of the building on the north side but did not enter. In the room 1 west of the north east most room i spawned a fatty (the room with all the chairs in it).
 
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Scott Hill
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caffeinehead wrote:
We'll need to wait for Sean then, because i don't see how you don't.

In #3 I opened the south west door of the building on the north side but did not enter. In the room 1 west of the north east most room i spawned a fatty (the room with all the chairs in it).


See my edit: was looking at the wrong scenario.
 
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Daniel Schulz
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The rules say the zombies take the shortest route. If there is no legal route, you are reading things into the rules by moving the zombies 'toward' the survivors.

 
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horrido wrote:
The rules say the zombies take the shortest route. If there is no legal route, you are reading things into the rules by moving the zombies 'toward' the survivors.


It's there in black and white:

[q="The Zombicide Rulebook"]If they see nobody, they move towards the Zone that contains the most Noise tokens.[/quote]



See?

(and survivors count as one noise token each!)
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I think there are two self-consistent ways of reading it, and you'll just need to pick one until there's an official FAQ. Either:

Zombies always move via a path that would lead them out of a building, as that's the shortest legal way for them to get to the noisy location, even if some other path that's fewer zones but is blocked by a locked door. Zombies in buildings with no open doors don't move.

Or:

Zombies always move via the shortest route, independent of doors. If they run into a door, they just bang against it. Zombies in buildings with no open doors move normally.

In our first game, we read the rules as saying the former, but I think I'd advocate for the latter now for flavor reasons. Zombies are dumb, and I think it's more in the spirit of the game for them to mindlessly move towards noise and then pile up at a closed door than for them to take the long way around because there's an open door at the far end of a building.
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flooey wrote:
I think there are two self-consistent ways of reading it, and you'll just need to pick one until there's an official FAQ. Either:

Zombies always move via a path that would lead them out of a building, as that's the shortest legal way for them to get to the noisy location, even if some other path that's fewer zones but is blocked by a locked door. Zombies in buildings with no open doors don't move.

Or:

Zombies always move via the shortest route, independent of doors. If they run into a door, they just bang against it. Zombies in buildings with no open doors move normally.

In our first game, we read the rules as saying the former, but I think I'd advocate for the latter now for flavor reasons. Zombies are dumb, and I think it's more in the spirit of the game for them to mindlessly move towards noise and then pile up at a closed door than for them to take the long way around because there's an open door at the far end of a building.


In may be in the spirit but it's not in the rules.They'd take the long way because that's where the sound is coming from.
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Greg R.
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
TurquoiseKnight wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
TurquoiseKnight wrote:
Zombies spawned at spawn points inside closed building do not move since they cannot hear you.


Is that specified in the rules somewhere, and if so where?



This is assumed thematically since the rules do not say anything about walls and sound, just line of sight. Once a door is opened, however, zombies move toward sound through the open doorway. This is how we've been playing. We could be doing it wrong but this is what made the most sense to us.


I think if it was meant to be played that way, they'd have explicitly stated that.

I mean, for example, in scenario 02 Y-Zone, if for some reason the players decide to do nothing on turn one with any of the survivors, so they're still at the start point on turn 2, and by some fluke you only ever draw one 'spawn 1 zombie' card for the lower-right spawn zone on turn 1, and draw 'spawn 0 zombies' cards on every other occasion, and the players then spend the next 3 hours doing nothing but using all 3 of their survivor(s) actions 'making some noise', would you have that zombie just stay on the lower-right spawn zone, because he can't hear-round-corners too??? (I mean, there's line-of-sight rules, but no line-of-hearing rules, so they must not be able to hear round corners too!)

Or, in the tutorial mission (00) they could all just happily stay in the room where they start, searching to their heart's content, until they're all armed to the teeth with the best combination of weapons, with an every growing mass of zombies standing on the spawn zone, and the two starting walkers going nowhere.


No, I'm talking about a situation like in scenario 07, there are Red spawn points in buildings that are closed (doors not busted open yet). But, I could be wrong because I guess the zombies could be beating down the doors to get out.

We play that the zombies move toward the noisiest spot on the board, as stated in the rules so yes, sound travels around corners and obviously through open doors. I'm still not so sure about closed doors on a completely closed building.

 
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