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Kingdom of Heaven: The Crusader States 1097-1291» Forums » Rules

Subject: Starting a siege rss

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Andrew Williams
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Hello.

If an army wants to besiege a stronghold does the entire army have to stop movement at the stronghold or can it drop off a sub-command to start the siege and continue moving with the rest?

Thanks.
 
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Dan Cunningham
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I don't have an official answer for you; but I don't see any rule that would prohibit you from leaving some units sieging a stronghold while other units moved on.

I would assume, however, that when you leave the stronghold space with part of your army this does allow the besieged force the opportunity to make a free attack against the force left behind (per 17.9).

Dan
 
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Chris Valk
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I don't believe you can. Per 17.6: "A siege may only be initiated by an active army (i.e., an army which was activated by a strategy card.)...Proceed to 17.6.1. This ends the active force's movement for that round."

Detaching a subordinate leader to conduct a separate siege would in essence be a free activation.

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Finland
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LaggingEdge wrote:
I don't believe you can. Per 17.6: "A siege may only be initiated by an active army (i.e., an army which was activated by a strategy card.)...Proceed to 17.6.1. This ends the active force's movement for that round."

Detaching a subordinate leader to conduct a separate siege would in essence be a free activation.


Yeah. I think that too.

Once you leave those units behind, you roll for attrition since they were left in an enemy stronghold space but you cannot start a siege there.
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Dan Cunningham
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AndrewWilliams wrote:
Hello.

If an army wants to besiege a stronghold does the entire army have to stop movement at the stronghold or can it drop off a sub-command to start the siege and continue moving with the rest?

Thanks.


I took the question to be about an army that started its movement in a different location, then moved into a stronghold location.

Per 17.5, when the army moves into the stronghold location it can call for surrender of the stronghold. This does not count as a siege. The army can move on after the call to surrender (as shown in the example on page 25).

I guess the question is; if part of the army moves on, can the remaining army initiate a siege? Maybe not, if they are no longer considered "active".

The siege is not resolved on the turn you move into the space and initiate the siege. It's on the next turn you can play siege events, assualt or starve a blockaded stronghold.

I also see that only once a force elects to begin a siege can you attempt to establish a blockade.

Kind of going off on a tangent, but it does take a little bit of thought to get these siege mechanics right.

Dan

 
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Andrew Williams
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LaggingEdge wrote:
I don't believe you can. Per 17.6: "A siege may only be initiated by an active army (i.e., an army which was activated by a strategy card.)...Proceed to 17.6.1. This ends the active force's movement for that round."

Detaching a subordinate leader to conduct a separate siege would in essence be a free activation.



I agree with that too. Just read the rules again, and more carefully this time (always a good idea), and I think 17.6 is clear enough: the entire active army stops if it wants to initiate a siege.

Another question/observation: unlike some games, there is no `Siege' counter to place on a besieged stronghold. I guess, though, that there will always be a RF counter which has the same function.

Fun game, anyway. Just tried a solitaire play through of the First Crusade. Those attrition rolls are lethal: the Crusaders just ran out of troops and ended up at the close of turn 2 with just 5 leaders and a single flipped Crusader unit, trying one last desperate assault on Acre and losing it all.
 
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Finland
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AndrewWilliams wrote:
LaggingEdge wrote:
I don't believe you can. Per 17.6: "A siege may only be initiated by an active army (i.e., an army which was activated by a strategy card.)...Proceed to 17.6.1. This ends the active force's movement for that round."

Detaching a subordinate leader to conduct a separate siege would in essence be a free activation.



Another question/observation: unlike some games, there is no `Siege' counter to place on a besieged stronghold. I guess, though, that there will always be a RF counter which has the same function.

Calculate the RF of a stronghold
only when an enemy force wishes to make a Call for Surrender
(17.5) or begin a siege.


Yes, the RF counters show where the sieges are happening.
 
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Scott de Brestian
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Your conclusion is correct: You can't start a siege 'on the fly' by dropping off forces.
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Scott de Brestian
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There are ways to minimize attrition: Move in smaller stacks. Use friendly Strongholds to reduce attrition. Use any event card that reduces foraging costs. Roll lots of ones.
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