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Subject: Gunning for Jutland rss

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John Griffey
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The game's Gunnery Damage Table (GDT) procedure is a mess. First, it's the Gunnery Factors which should be halved, doubled, or tripled at various ranges, not the hits. It makes no sense as written.

Another crazy thing about it is that you have a 1/6 chance for a critical hit regardless of your Gunnery Factor. A GF of 1 is as good as a GF of 33 for scoring a Critical Hit.

I propose we look at raw hits (0,1,2,3,4, or 5) and then roll a dodecahedron (12 sided die, numbered 1-12). If the die roll is equal to or less than the number of raw hits, there's a critical hit.

The critical hit table should have a critical hit for turret flash fires and magazine explosions which killed so many British sailors at Jutland.

Roll two dice on this New Critical Hit Table:

2: Turret Fire/ Magazine Explosion. Roll 2 dice. If the sum is greater than the ship's Protection Factor, the ship explodes and sinks. If the sum is not greater, the ship loses an extra three gunnery factors.

3-4: Steering Hit. Ship remains stationary for 3 straight maneuver & fire turns, but may turn up to 180 degrees in place each turn. Trailing ships may pass over stationary ships.

5: Major Steering Hit. Ship remains stationary for remainder of time it stays afloat. Trailing ships may pass over stationary ship.

6: Engine Hit. Ships movement factor reduced by 3 for the remainder of the hour.

7: Turret Fire/ Magazine Explosion. Roll 2 dice. If the sum is greater than the ship's Protection Factor, the ship explodes and sinks. If the sum is not greater, the ship loses an extra gunnery factor.

8: Major Engine Hit. Ship's movement factor reduced by 4 for remainder of the game. Ship may only travel in the even hours, moving one hex.

9: Major Fire Control Hit: Ship cannot fire for 2 consecutive fire & maneuver turns beginning next turn.

10-11: Fire Control Hit: If British, ship cannot fire for 2 consecutive turns. If German, ship cannot fire for 1 turn beginning next turn.

12: Turret Fire/ Magazine Explosion. Roll 2 dice. If the sum is greater than the ship's Protection Factor, the ship explodes and sinks. If the sum is not greater, the ship loses an extra two gunnery factors.

The above table accounts for the catastrophic magazine explosions due to loose gunpowder handling practices, which claimed thousands of British lives at Jutland. EDIT: the chance of a Critical Hit being a turret fire/magazine explosion is now 8/36 = 22%.
******************************************************************

Britain's 13.5" and 15" Guns

Size isn't everything, but it is something, especially when the size difference is as great as at Jutland. Compare the bore diameters and weight of shells of the some of the big guns at Jutland. A 15" shell is twice the weight of a 12" shell, just as an 8" shell is twice the weight of a 6" shell:

British 15" gun: 1920 lb. projectile.
British 13.5" gun: 1250 lb., AP projectile.
German 12" (305mm) gun: 557-893 lb. projectiles.
British 12" gun: 850 lb. projectile.
German 11" (280mm)gun: 530 - 630 lb. projectile.

I read the big British guns' projectiles were most effective when the angle of their impact to German steel plate was close to perpendicular, i.e., at under 6,000 yards.

With the exception of HMS Canada's 14" guns, and Agincourt's 12" guns, the thirteen British BB with centerline turret configurations and with Protection Factors of 8 had 13.5 inch guns. (Treat HMS Canada's 14" guns as 13.5". Treat HMS Agincourt's 12" guns as 12" guns: it's the only BB with two broadside-only centerline turrets, so it's easy to pick out. The BCs HMS Lion, HMS Princess Royal, and HMS Tiger also had 13.5" guns.

--At ranges under 3000 yards, multiply 13.5" gunnery factors by 4 rather than the usual 3.
--At ranges 20,000--24,000 yards, divide their gunnery factor by 3.

The six British BB with Protection Factors of 10 had 15" guns.

--At ranges 3,000--6000 yards, multiply their gunnery factors by 3 rather than the usual 2.
--At ranges under 3000 yards, multiply their gunnery factors by 5 rather than the usual 3.
--At ranges 16,000-24,000, they can fire with halved gunnery factors.

Extra Gunnery Damage Table Columns
Add three columns to the Gunnery Fire Table for Gunnery Factors 40-47, 48-56, and 57+, adding two more hits to each successive column. Thus:

40-47 Gunnery Factors: 5, 5, 4, 4, 4.
48-56 Gunnery Factors: 6, 5, 5, 4, 4.
57+ Gunnery Factors: 6, 6, 5, 5, 4.

*****************************************************************

Penalty for Splash Confusion
For each BB beyond the first one firing at a single target, shift the column odds 1 left. This adjusts for fire control being unable to adjust fall of shot for splash when multiple ships are firing at a target.

Crossing the T
Shift the column odds 1 right if you have crossed the target's T.




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Paul Popejoy
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Hmm...

What about the problems the British had with shells breaking up on impact or detonating before penetrating the armor of German ships? Do the gunnery factors take this into account?

Paul
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John Griffey
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byepopejoy wrote:
Hmm...

What about the problems the British had with shells breaking up on impact or detonating before penetrating the armor of German ships? Do the gunnery factors take this into account?

Paul


Yes. For example, all of these get 12 Gunnery Factors:
SMS Koenig class's 10 x 12" guns.
SMS Posen class's 12 x 11" guns.
SMS Moltke and Seydlitz's 10 x 11" guns.
HMS Barham class's 8 x 15" guns.
HMS Orion and HMS Iron Duke classes's 10 x 13.5" guns.

Also, German BB and BC Protection Factors are uniformly about 4 points or 50% higher than the PFs of their British BB counterparts.

The big British gun shells penetrated better at closer rangers where the trajectory was flat. At longer ranges where the angle of impact was more oblique the German shells did better. So, I don't have a problem with the smaller German guns being a match for the bigger British guns at ranges 6,000 - 20,000 yards. But if the Germans fought the British big BB at under 6,000 yards I think their advantages in shells, fuses, explosives and optics would not have mattered so much, and the weight of the bigger Brit guns would have prevailed. Also, at extreme long range the bigger guns had an advantage.

The Germans sought to avoid close gun duel with the Grand Fleet for good reasons.

PS: I'm still not quite satisfied with my Critical Hit Table. I think the frequency of turret fire/magazine explosion should be a bit higher than 1/6 of the critical hits.
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David Seddon
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Interesting. I too made lots of changes for my own version of Jutland.

For instance, I have my own hit tables and have marked on extra range for British 15" guns at half, double, triple and single.

Thanks,

David
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Warren Bruhn
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If you want a more historically and technically plausible system for the tactical aspects, try either Naval Thunder: Clash of Dreadnoughts or Fleet Action Imminent! General Quarters WWI Rules. Naval Thunder is supposed to be simpler than Fleet Action Imminent. Personally, I use FAI. There are more complex systems like Seekrieg V, Fear God & Dread Nought, and Supremacy at Sea, but I think those more complex "rivet counter" systems are better for small encounters.

The think that Jutland is good for is the operational moves to set up encounters. Could do the same with Great War at Sea: Jutland. But the old Jutland map still looks good to me decades after publication.
 
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