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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Cardinal's Plight question rss

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Drake Coker
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We played The Cardinal's Plight yesterday for the first time. As the overlord, I screwed up the first encounter, getting only one zombie off the board (really should have read part 2 before playing!).

The heroes had a pretty good shot in part 2 given my low zombie count, but still lost, with Cardinal Bingo dying while crawling up the stairs to the way out! So close.

One overlord ability seemed a bit overpowered in the scenario, and I want to make sure we played it right. That is the Grab ability from the master zombie. I used it on Cardinal Flizzbit quite a bit, and with his strength of two, he was immobilized pretty often. Seems like the heros can't stop this since the master zombie can come back as a reinforcement and often spawn pretty close to the Cardinal.

So, did we play right? Can Grab target the Cardinal?

P.S. Obviously, I don't recall the Cardinal's actual name, but he died under a mass of zombies, so who cares?
 
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Kelly Overholser
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You should be able to get the cardinal close to the exit without too many problems, since the zombies can only move three spaces and spawn at the exit. Getting him out may require blocking the path out of the exit with two heroes, however, so that the zombie can't actually reach the cardinal to grab him.

If you manage to rescue the cardinal and kill everything except the zombies however, it shouldn't be a hard quest to win as the heroes. Don't forget to keep healing him up at the altar. Of course, if the overlord has more than just one zombie from the previous quest, it's a much harsher time limit on the heroes to get in there and kill them off.
 
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Drake Coker
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Sethala wrote:
You should be able to get the cardinal close to the exit without too many problems, since the zombies can only move three spaces and spawn at the exit. Getting him out may require blocking the path out of the exit with two heroes, however, so that the zombie can't actually reach the cardinal to grab him.

If you manage to rescue the cardinal and kill everything except the zombies however, it shouldn't be a hard quest to win as the heroes. Don't forget to keep healing him up at the altar. Of course, if the overlord has more than just one zombie from the previous quest, it's a much harsher time limit on the heroes to get in there and kill them off.


Well, I do think the heros made some mistakes. At one point, three heros were knocked out and the last one was fleeing down a hallway being chased by a dragon!

However, you left my actual question unanswered... is the Cardinal a legal target for the master zombie's Grab ability?
 
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Kelly Overholser
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Ah, sorry, I missed that - yes, he is.
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Garth Bowden
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Two related mechanics questions, both relating to the second encounter:

1. When does the Cardinal become "rescued"? The rules give two separate instances where the Cardinal can become "rescued". One is when the door opens, the other is when a hero moves next to him. Which was FFs intent? I played that the heroes have to move next to him before they can start moving him.

2. Can I activate the zombies that I place in the library or entrance on the same turn they appear? Since the zombies in the second half of the scenario are placed at the start of the overlord's turn, doesn't that mean he can activate them that turn?
 
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Drake Coker
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Dragon_Slave wrote:
Two related mechanics questions, both relating to the second encounter:

1. When does the Cardinal become "rescued"? The rules give two separate instances where the Cardinal can become "rescued". One is when the door opens, the other is when a hero moves next to him. Which was FFs intent? I played that the heroes have to move next to him before they can start moving him.

2. Can I activate the zombies that I place in the library or entrance on the same turn they appear? Since the zombies in the second half of the scenario are placed at the start of the overlord's turn, doesn't that mean he can activate them that turn?


Non-authoritative...

1. We played that the second wave rules start as soon as the door is opened, but the Cardinal can't move until a hero moves next to him.

2. We played that the zombies can be activated. I can't think of any reason why they couldn't be.
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Mike Paivinen
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Olvenskol wrote:
Dragon_Slave wrote:
Two related mechanics questions, both relating to the second encounter:

1. When does the Cardinal become "rescued"? The rules give two separate instances where the Cardinal can become "rescued". One is when the door opens, the other is when a hero moves next to him. Which was FFs intent? I played that the heroes have to move next to him before they can start moving him.

2. Can I activate the zombies that I place in the library or entrance on the same turn they appear? Since the zombies in the second half of the scenario are placed at the start of the overlord's turn, doesn't that mean he can activate them that turn?


Non-authoritative...

1. We played that the second wave rules start as soon as the door is opened, but the Cardinal can't move until a hero moves next to him.

2. We played that the zombies can be activated. I can't think of any reason why they couldn't be.
+1
 
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Max Power
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I had this issue as well in a game tonight. I wonder if anybody could address this further? As the overlord (against 2 heroes) I simply 'grabbed' Koth every single turn and then attacked with all the zombies and won quite easily.

I'd love to know the answer to these questions:

1. Can the master zombie perform a second grab action if the first one fails?

2. If he can then how are the heroes ever supposed to win?! The chance of passing the test twice is so small and if the master zombie is killed I can simply reinforce him at the start of my turn right next to Koth and grab him again.

In the game I played I house-ruled that I could only grab once per turn to give the heroes a fighting chance.
 
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Richard Dewsbery
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Gee swizz. Played this tonight with three heroes, and the heroes never got remotely close to rescuing the cleric. We didn't even get the door open. 4 zombies plus the zombie master all bashing the bishop as hard as they could made an awful mess in double-quick time. Yes, four zombies - we got owned in part 1 of the quest too
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zoran
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RDewsbery wrote:
4 zombies plus the zombie master all bashing the bishop as hard as they could made an awful mess in double-quick time


Hmmm yes bashing the ol' bish can have that effect...

:O
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Ian Kelly
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melonade wrote:
1. Can the master zombie perform a second grab action if the first one fails?


I don't see why not.

Quote:
2. If he can then how are the heroes ever supposed to win?! The chance of passing the test twice is so small and if the master zombie is killed I can simply reinforce him at the start of my turn right next to Koth and grab him again.


My recollection is that the zombie reinforcements come in at the map entrance, not "right next to Koth". Is that wrong?
 
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Max Power
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Peristarkawan wrote:

My recollection is that the zombie reinforcements come in at the map entrance, not "right next to Koth". Is that wrong?


The quest guide says "...at the start of each overlord turn, he may place 1 zombie on either the library or the entrance...". So you can grab Koth in the library where he starts and just keep reinforcing there. I don't see how 2 heroes can win against that tactic, I only had one minion zombie and found it very easy as OL.
 
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Rom Brown
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Hmmm... it states "he (CK) can only be attacked by zombies"... This could be read to mean zombies can not use a non-attack action on CK; and Grab is a non-attack action.
 
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Jeff Davis
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minksling wrote:
Hmmm... it states "he (CK) can only be attacked by zombies"... This could be read to mean zombies can not use a non-attack action on CK; and Grab is a non-attack action.


Holy Crap! I was fine until I got to this last thread of this post.

Depending on which word is "bolded", the meaning is very different:

can only be attacked by zombies"...
can only be attacked by zombies"...

I don't have the quest book near me atm, does anyone know off hand if either (or any) of those two words are "emphasized" in the book?

Normally I do not concern myself with symantics and/or inflection, but this is such a game (encounter) changer depending on how it is interpreted.

- SK

 
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Ian Kelly
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sargonkid wrote:
I don't have the quest book near me atm, does anyone know off hand if either (or any) of those two words are "emphasized" in the book?


They are not emphasized in the book. Also, I'm pretty sure that if that were the intent, they would have just written, "Cardinal Koth cannot be Grabbed by the zombies", which would have been more to the point and much clearer.
 
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Michael Müller
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I played this quest this week and believe if grab is allowed, the heros can never win this quest.

Grab can be used on the cardinal in the first round, but he cannot get rid off it until he is activated. He gets activated not before the door is opened. So he will be paralyzed before the heros ever get the chance to kill the zombie. In the round the heros open the door and kill the zombie, the cardinal can get rid off the paralyzed state, but cannot move. The zombie can spawn direct beside the cardinal an grab him again.

The only way the heros can win is, if they use skills to take the paralyzed state off the cardinal or have skills to attack the zombie when he activates.
 
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Ian Kelly
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Only the Master Zombie can grab, and it requires a skill check, so while I agree that Grab is overpowered here, I don't think it makes it impossible.
 
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Dragon_Slave wrote:
Two related mechanics questions, both relating to the second encounter:

1. When does the Cardinal become "rescued"? The rules give two separate instances where the Cardinal can become "rescued". One is when the door opens, the other is when a hero moves next to him. Which was FFs intent? I played that the heroes have to move next to him before they can start moving him.

2. Can I activate the zombies that I place in the library or entrance on the same turn they appear? Since the zombies in the second half of the scenario are placed at the start of the overlord's turn, doesn't that mean he can activate them that turn?


This was addressed in the FAQ, where they clarified that the Cardinal is "rescued" when the door opens, and the heroes do not have to end a turn next to him.
 
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