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The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game – Khazad-dûm» Forums » Rules

Subject: New Devilry rss

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Fred Hartig
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Hello!

The Flight from Moria rules state, that the 2A quest cards are only flipped to side B at the beginning of the Staging Step, and NOT the moment they are revealed.
Only certain card effects can flip them immediately to side B.

But, is the treachery card "New Devilry" one of those cards?
Do I flip the new quest card to side B, when it is revealed by "New Devilry"?

Thanks


Fred
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Matt Duckworth
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I beleive so. New Devilry instantly shuffles the current quest card and instructs you to instantly reveal the next. It would be hard to reveal without flipping to 2B.
 
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Frank Otte
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Except that the core rules make a difference between revealing and flipping a quest card.

On p.22, paragraph "Quest Advancement" is specified: "Players immediately advance to the next stage of a quest as soon as they place a number of progress tokens equal to or greater than the number of quest points the current quest card has. (...) Players follow any instructions on the newly revealed quest card as it is revealed."

Since we know that usually the instructions of side A of a quest card must be followed before side B, we can follow from this paragraph here, that "revealing a quest card" does not mean, to flip in on side B, but to make it visible on top of the quest deck.

Instead, the turning of a quest card onto side B is called "flipping" in the core rules, as you can see on p.5 of the core rules, paragraph "Quest Cards": "After reading and following any instructions on Side A, players flip the card to Side B. Side B contains the information necessary to move to the next stage of the quest."

And again on p.10, paragraph "7. Follow Scenario Setup Instruction": "The back of the first quest card sometimes provides setup instructions for a scenario. Follow these instructions before flipping the quest card."

Please note again in the last quotation, that the term "Follow these instructions before revealing the quest card." is avoided here.

We can follow, that "revealing a quest card" does indeed mean the process of making a quest card visible on top of the quest deck with side A, and not, flipping it to side B.

With that in mind, I would judge, that "New Devilry" does not allow you to flip the new quest card immediately onto side B. You have to acknowledge side A first. Side A states, that you are not allowed to flip it to side B before the next beginning of staging step. Since in the moment, you reveal "New Devilry", it is not the beginning of the staging step anymore, you must wait for the staging step of the next round to flip the card.
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Cadrick Loh
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Hermjard wrote:
Except that the core rules make a difference between revealing and flipping a quest card.

On p.22, paragraph "Quest Advancement" is specified: "Players immediately advance to the next stage of a quest as soon as they place a number of progress tokens equal to or greater than the number of quest points the current quest card has. (...) Players follow any instructions on the newly revealed quest card as it is revealed."

Since we know that usually the instructions of side A of a quest card must be followed before side B, we can follow from this paragraph here, that "revealing a quest card" does not mean, to flip in on side B, but to make it visible on top of the quest deck.

Instead, the turning of a quest card onto side B is called "flipping" in the core rules, as you can see on p.5 of the core rules, paragraph "Quest Cards": "After reading and following any instructions on Side A, players flip the card to Side B. Side B contains the information necessary to move to the next stage of the quest."

And again on p.10, paragraph "7. Follow Scenario Setup Instruction": "The back of the first quest card sometimes provides setup instructions for a scenario. Follow these instructions before flipping the quest card."

Please note again in the last quotation, that the term "Follow these instructions before revealing the quest card." is avoided here.

We can follow, that "revealing a quest card" does indeed mean the process of making a quest card visible on top of the quest deck with side A, and not, flipping it to side B.

With that in mind, I would judge, that "New Devilry" does not allow you to flip the new quest card immediately onto side B. You have to acknowledge side A first. Side A states, that you are not allowed to flip it to side B before the next beginning of staging step. Since in the moment, you reveal "New Devilry", it is not the beginning of the staging step anymore, you must wait for the staging step of the next round to flip the card.


Agreed.
If u look back the manual sheet in Khazad Dum box, under Creating the Quest Deck
"Quest card not flipped to side B immediately when revealed."
And
"The only exception to this are card effects that reveal and flip a new quest card, such as on Hasty Council"

So as long as it doesnt ask u to "flip", the quest card should be showing the A side until it's instructed to flip.

Hope that's help.
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Tim M
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Hate to necro this thread, but I was confused when playing Flight from Moria and decided to submit a question to FFG.

Quote:
1) The Treachery Card "New Devilry" says, "If the players are not on stage 1, shuffle the current quest card into the quest deck, then reveal a new quest card." Does revealing the next quest card mean that side 2A is revealed, or does revealing it mean that it should be flipped to side 2B? This is important since the scenario instructions state that quest cards should not be flipped until the beginning of the staging step.


I got this response from Caleb.

Quote:
Hi Tim,
1. When you resolve New Devilry, you should reveal the 2B side of the quest card.

[answers to other questions deleted]

Cheers,
Caleb
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Pádraic MacOireachtaigh
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Presumably the card that is shuffled into the quest deck is flipped back to its 2A side before shuffling - how do others play this?

Thanks for Caleb's response. Not sure that would have been my interpretation - does anyone have a link to an intelligent debate/post about reasons for following the letter of the law as best you can versus following a clarification in a forum post or email reply from, e.g. Caleb?
 
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