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Subject: Give Travis some ideas for Kickstarter Stretch Goals! rss

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Clyde W
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I have one to kick things off: Fan-inspired Plot Cards! Like various Fan-made Agricola decks, allow fans to submit ideas for plot cards and then pick the best and print them up for us.

That would be a super fun stretch goal, and there's a ton of interesting plot cards already invented by fans here on the forums.

My favorite so far was created by BlueTorch: "If you are a spy, you must give this card to a Resistance player. If you are a Resistance player, you can give this to anyone."
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Already mentioned this in another thread (which you replied to), but:

1. Spare sets of cards to replace cards that are eventually damaged or marked in some way.

2. Chipboard tokens that can replace the function of character and pass/fail cards (assuming that these components are still cards in this game)

And for some additional ideas:

3. I like fan-inspired plot cards, although we'll need access to the rules if we're going to start creating them for Avalon.

4. Additional components to play with up to 12 players. Perhaps playing best of 7 instead of best of 5?

5. Random "mission modifier" cards. Think plot cards, except one is randomly selected and automatically put into effect each round, after the team has been approved. For example, "The mission leader may elect to send one additional player on this mission. If (s)he does, one additional Fail vote is required to sabotage the mission". Or, "All team members must play their mission card faceup this round".
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clydeiii wrote:
I have one to kick things off: Fan-inspired Plot Cards! Like various Fan-made Agricola decks, allow fans to submit ideas for plot cards and then pick the best and print them up for us.

That would be a super fun stretch goal, and there's a ton of interesting plot cards already invented by fans here on the forums.

My favorite so far was created by BlueTorch: "If you are a spy, you must give this card to a Resistance player. If you are a Resistance player, you can give this to anyone."


this would be awesome. I very much admire the "put it all in the box" method Travis does, but this would be fun and maybe some would be broken and maybe some would be awful but that's fine. Maybe have a poll and after every $5,000 one more card would be included. It'd be a fantastic way to generate interest in the campaign too.
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Travis Worthington
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please read what I have posted on the game's kickstarter page about stretch goals. There isn't the time between now and when this gets released to develop and test and print more game play content. Its just not possible to make it work into a production schedule.

Not to say that great ideas for game play couldn't be used in the future, but not for this kickstarter. I am very conscious about the need to manage expectations. So please contribute your thoughts and ideas, just don't get disappointing when they aren't included in product that needs to be out the door in October.

Promo items that could be distributed electronically are much more likely to make it. That means it doesn't have to get done till mid-October because there isn't a long production and shipping time, nor shipping costs to contend with.
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Clyde W
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Travis, who said anything about developing and testing more content?! Just do a rush for these guys! Here, there's a ton of good ideas here: Ideas for fan made plot cards / scenario cards?
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Clyde W
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T Worthington wrote:
Promo items that could be distributed electronically are much more likely to make it. That means it doesn't have to get done till mid-October because there isn't a long production and shipping time, nor shipping costs to contend with.
Having said that, if you could collect some of your favorite fan-made plot cards and distribute them in a PDF for backers only that we could do a PnP with, that'd also be cool.
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Travis Worthington
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clydeiii wrote:
T Worthington wrote:
Promo items that could be distributed electronically are much more likely to make it. That means it doesn't have to get done till mid-October because there isn't a long production and shipping time, nor shipping costs to contend with.
Having said that, if you could collect some of your favorite fan-made plot cards and distribute them in a PDF for backers only that we could do a PnP with, that'd also be cool. :)


I like that idea.

Would still need to get permissions to use the cards (I'd like an agreement that protects me), and get art done.

If you want to take lead on picking 15 cards (can include multiples) and get the posters to agree (in writing) then I can get the art work done.

That would be cool, and perhaps in the future could print these as a promo item to throw into a future project.
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Clyde W
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Travis that sounds awesome! I'd love to help.

So, yeah, everyone who wants to contribute a plot card, please do so in this thread. When you contribute, please indicate that you'd be willing to sign away the intellectual property over to Travis.

Here, I'll start! I just came up with this one off the top of my head but sounds fun:

Quote:
Gaining Trust - Ask all players to point to one other player that they trust. Then choose a player having no one pointing at them and look at their role card.


(Travis, I'll leave it up to you to work out the wording of these things, yeah?)
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Travis Worthington
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clydeiii wrote:
Travis that sounds awesome! I'd love to help.

So, yeah, everyone who wants to contribute a plot card, please do so in this thread. When you contribute, please indicate that you'd be willing to sign away the intellectual property over to Travis.

Here, I'll start! I just came up with this one off the top of my head but sounds fun:

Quote:
Gaining Trust - Ask all players to point to one other player that they trust. Then choose a player having no one pointing at them and look at their role card.


(Travis, I'll leave it up to you to work out the wording of these things, yeah?)


Awesome! This is really exciting.

Would love to get everything settled by September 2nd if possible.
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Yeah I have no problem saying take these, though a few (Imperial Decree, Love Letter, ect) aren't 100% me. These are my made up cards I sometimes play with for fan-inspired plot cards:

Urgency- Your Proposal Vote counts for two votes.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
5+ Players

Silenced- You cannot speak until the next mission (you can gesture, grunt, hum, ect...).
(Leader affects someone else with this.)
5+ Players

Imperial Decree- Spies may not play pass cards on the current mission.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
7+ Players

Love Letter- The leader gives this card to another player. Spies must give this card to a Resistance player.
(Leader must play immediately.)
7+ Players

Confinement- You cannot vote on proposals during the current mission.
(Leader affects someone else with this.)
5+ Players

Filibuster- You may add an additional round of proposals to the current mission.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
5+ Players

Revelation- Players vote for a player. The player receiving the most votes reveals their Role Card to all. In the event of a tie, nobody reveals their Role Card.
(Leader gets and immediately plays.)
7+ Players

Pariah- You may not be the leader (for the duration of the game).
(Leader affects someone else with this.)
7+ Players

Turn the Tide- Reverse the direction the leader card is played.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
5+ Players

Power Play- You may exchange yourself with one member of an approved Mission Team if it was proposed by yourself or in the final proposal.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
7+ Players

Misinformation- Negate the effect of any plot card one time.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
5+ Players

Delegation- Select another player to immediately draw a plot card as though they are the leader.
(Leader gets and immediately plays.)
5+ Players

Pandemonium- All players with plot cards must give their plot card(s) to another player.
(Leader gets and immediately plays.)
5+ Players
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Clyde W
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Azgard12 wrote:
Yeah I have no problem saying take these, though a few (Imperial Decree, Love Letter, ect) aren't 100% me. These are my made up cards I sometimes play with for fan-inspired plot cards:

Urgency- Your Proposal Vote counts for two votes.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
5+ Players

Silenced- You cannot speak until the next mission (you can gesture, grunt, hum, ect...).
(Leader affects someone else with this.)
5+ Players

Imperial Decree- Spies may not play pass cards on the current mission.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
7+ Players

Love Letter- The leader gives this card to another player. Spies must give this card to a Resistance player.
(Leader must play immediately.)
7+ Players

Confinement- You cannot vote on proposals during the current mission.
(Leader affects someone else with this.)
5+ Players

Filibuster- You may add an additional round of proposals to the current mission.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
5+ Players

Revelation- Players vote for a player. The player receiving the most votes reveals their Role Card to all. In the event of a tie, nobody reveals their Role Card.
(Leader gets and immediately plays.)
7+ Players

Pariah- You may not be the leader (for the duration of the game).
(Leader affects someone else with this.)
7+ Players

Turn the Tide- Reverse the direction the leader card is played.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
5+ Players

Power Play- You may exchange yourself with one member of an approved Mission Team if it was proposed by yourself or in the final proposal.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
7+ Players

Misinformation- Negate the effect of any plot card one time.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
5+ Players

Delegation- Select another player to immediately draw a plot card as though they are the leader.
(Leader gets and immediately plays.)
5+ Players

Pandemonium- All players with plot cards must give their plot card(s) to another player.
(Leader gets and immediately plays.)
5+ Players
Brady, these are all fantastic!
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Azgard12 wrote:
Yeah I have no problem saying take these, though a few (Imperial Decree, Love Letter, ect) aren't 100% me. These are my made up cards I sometimes play with for fan-inspired plot cards:

Urgency- Your Proposal Vote counts for two votes.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
5+ Players

Silenced- You cannot speak until the next mission (you can gesture, grunt, hum, ect...).
(Leader affects someone else with this.)
5+ Players

Imperial Decree- Spies may not play pass cards on the current mission.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
7+ Players

Love Letter- The leader gives this card to another player. Spies must give this card to a Resistance player.
(Leader must play immediately.)
7+ Players

Confinement- You cannot vote on proposals during the current mission.
(Leader affects someone else with this.)
5+ Players

Filibuster- You may add an additional round of proposals to the current mission.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
5+ Players

Revelation- Players vote for a player. The player receiving the most votes reveals their Role Card to all. In the event of a tie, nobody reveals their Role Card.
(Leader gets and immediately plays.)
7+ Players

Pariah- You may not be the leader (for the duration of the game).
(Leader affects someone else with this.)
7+ Players

Turn the Tide- Reverse the direction the leader card is played.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
5+ Players

Power Play- You may exchange yourself with one member of an approved Mission Team if it was proposed by yourself or in the final proposal.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
7+ Players

Misinformation- Negate the effect of any plot card one time.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
5+ Players

Delegation- Select another player to immediately draw a plot card as though they are the leader.
(Leader gets and immediately plays.)
5+ Players

Pandemonium- All players with plot cards must give their plot card(s) to another player.
(Leader gets and immediately plays.)
5+ Players


That's 13 plus the two Clyde already mentioned. Done! Any other requests, Travis? Haha

But seriously, the more ideas the better. Will ask my group next time we meet. We love coming up with stuff like this.
 
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Some very nice ideas in here! Here are a few I was thinking about:

Distrust - Leader chooses one person who reveals their role card. If a Spy is revealed, this counts as a Succesful mission.
(Leader gets and immediately plays.)
7+ Players

Good Intel - The next mission requires an additional negative vote to fail.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
5+ Players

Extra Ammo - Any single already played Plot card may be used once again.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
7+ Players

Slight Suspicion - Discard any single unused Plot card owned by any player instantly.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
5+ Players

Decoy - Mission result will be based on one less member vote. Select a member who's vote won't count once voting cards are face down. That person's vote will be ignored and remain secret.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
5+ Players

Kamikaze
Unveil your Spy character card and instandly fail a mission. Resistance members may not use or discard this card.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
7+ Players

Picking Favourites
Select a member who needs to show his character card to any other member of your choice excluding yourself.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
7+ Players

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Will you be creating an Artscow version of these new cards?
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Luds wrote:
Some very nice ideas in here! Here are a few I was thinking about:

Distrust - Leader chooses one person who reveals their role card. If a Spy is revealed, this counts as a Succesful mission.
(Leader gets and immediately plays.)
7+ Players

Good Intel - The next mission requires an additional negative vote to fail.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
5+ Players

Extra Ammo - Any single already played Plot card may be used once again.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
7+ Players

Slight Suspicion - Discard any single unused Plot card owned by any player instantly.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
5+ Players

Decoy - Mission result will be based on one less member vote. Select a member who's vote won't count once voting cards are face down. That person's vote will be ignored and remain secret.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
5+ Players

Kamikaze
Unveil your Spy character card and instandly fail a mission. Resistance members may not use or discard this card.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
7+ Players

Picking Favourites
Select a member who needs to show his character card to any other member of your choice excluding yourself.
(Leader gives to someone else, they play it when they choose.)
7+ Players

I like Kamikaze. It comes with some interesting questions.

I think Decoy and Extra Ammo sound interesting and could be worked.

The rest are redundant, have power-level issues, or would sometimes be awkward to play with (Slight Suspicion, for example, is almost always going to be a bad play unless Kamikaze is out there...)

Good work!
 
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From the thread already linked, here are a few of my ideas.

Quote:
New Target: Play before the mission team is selected. You get to pick what one of the remaining missions to go on.

Recount: Re-do the mission team vote with the same members going.

Follow along behind: If you are not on a team that goes, look at the loyalty card of a player who is on the team.

Pressing urgency : Add one to the number of approval votes on the mission selection vote.


The first is like the targeting variant only in card form. Recount does not add to the 'five failed votes in a row' victory condition. Follow is powerful but limited in use as the owner of the card cant look if they are on a team themselves. Pressing urgency must be used before the vote.

I hereby give Indie Boards & Cards permission to use any of my ideas on the condition that I get my name printed in the "special thanks to" section of the rulebook

Naturally I would vote for my own ideas, but other cards that I would like to see are "Imperial Decree" and "Misinformation" by Azgard12 and "Slight Suspicion" by Luds.

I would also very much like to see "scenario" cards. The blind-spies variant already in the rulebook would be one such scenario. Another would be

Quote:
Amnesia: At the start of the game, one player does not look at their loyalty card
Its the classic spy-movie storyline. Someone cant remember who they are and has to gather clues if they are a good guy or a bad guy. But all the spies know the loyalty of the one with amnesia so have to give clues without being too obvious.
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T Worthington wrote:

That would be cool, and perhaps in the future could print these as a promo item to throw into a future project.


Is there a way to get these cards printed instead of a preview of a comic? If I can be completely blunt, most people won't care about that comic and it will probably be rotting in the garbage or in some hoarder's closet somewhere, but fan cards can actually make the game better. Make the game the priority.
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Spiff wrote:
T Worthington wrote:

That would be cool, and perhaps in the future could print these as a promo item to throw into a future project.


Is there a way to get these cards printed instead of a preview of a comic? If I can be completely blunt, most people won't care about that comic and it will probably be rotting in the garbage or in some hoarder's closet somewhere, but fan cards can actually make the game better. Make the game the priority.


no way, there just isn't time to pick cards, give them some testing to make sure they work together, get artwork done and printed in time for them to be sent out, sorry but logistics just don't work out.

If we reach the $9OK level I'll give people the option not to get the physical copy of the comic if they don't want it. It won't hurt my feelings.
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T Worthington wrote:
Spiff wrote:
T Worthington wrote:

That would be cool, and perhaps in the future could print these as a promo item to throw into a future project.


Is there a way to get these cards printed instead of a preview of a comic? If I can be completely blunt, most people won't care about that comic and it will probably be rotting in the garbage or in some hoarder's closet somewhere, but fan cards can actually make the game better. Make the game the priority.


no way, there just isn't time to pick cards, give them some testing to make sure they work together, get artwork done and printed in time for them to be sent out, sorry but logistics just don't work out.

If we reach the $9OK level I'll give people the option not to get the physical copy of the comic if they don't want it. It won't hurt my feelings.


I love the comic idea, I'm really hoping to get this.

As for the cards, I'll certainly be printing them through Artscow.
I've already gone through the process for Dune.
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Azgard12 wrote:

I like Kamikaze. It comes with some interesting questions.

I think Decoy and Extra Ammo sound interesting and could be worked.

The rest are redundant, have power-level issues, or would sometimes be awkward to play with (Slight Suspicion, for example, is almost always going to be a bad play unless Kamikaze is out there...)

Good work!


I like the idea of a curve ball around a mission vote. Good Intel and Decoy certainly do this. Kamikaze is a powerful card and does indeed brings a lot of questions to light. Lots of possibilities with this one.
 
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See, I feel like Kamikazi is overpowered. If I got that as a spy, I'd definitely use it right away. It's just too good. I'd use it if I got on right on M1, even. As a spy, I'd MUCH rather get a point than stay hidden. So much so that I very rarely fail Mission 1 if I get assigned onto it, these days.
 
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clydeiii wrote:
See, I feel like Kamikazi is overpowered. If I got that as a spy, I'd definitely use it right away. It's just too good. I'd use it if I got on right on M1, even. As a spy, I'd MUCH rather get a point than stay hidden. So much so that I very rarely fail Mission 1 if I get assigned onto it, these days.
Yeah, I'd get on M1, fail it (if I owned Kamikaze) and then just Kamikaze in M2 and peace out.

There needs to be an additional condition.
 
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Hmm. Here's two conditions that seem to help the card out. The first is the condition that as the leader handing it out, you can choose not to hand it out. Second, if you're a spy and you're given that card, you must immediately use it and fail current mission. What that effectively does is clear a rebel, if a rebel happens to get the card.

So it's actually kinda interesting...because if you're a spy and you give to another spy, you're almost outing yourself in doing so, but not quite, and if you're a rebel who accidentally gives to it to a spy, it's really bad news for you. But if you're a spy, you can purposefully gain trust by giving it to a rebel, and hope to get sent on a mission, but at the cost of clearing a rebel 100%. Of you can attempt to gain trust by not giving it to someone even. The more choices, the better.

It's a really powerful card, any way you slice it, but it's an interesting concept.
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clydeiii wrote:
Hmm. Here's two conditions that seem to help the card out. The first is the condition that as the leader handing it out, you can choose not to hand it out. Second, if you're a spy and you're given that card, you must immediately use it and fail current mission. What that effectively does is clear a rebel, if a rebel happens to get the card.
I don't quite like these, Clyde. The first one basically means the leader is expected to just get rid of the card. Yes, it might not happen, but why throw that risk out there.

And using it right away makes me sad.
clydeiii wrote:
Oh, I know. If you're a spy and you're given that card, you must immediately use it and fail the mission. What that effectively does is clear a rebel, if they happen to get the card.

So it's actually kinda interesting...because if you're a spy and you give to another spy, you're almost outing yourself in doing so, but not quite, and if you're a rebel who accidentally gives to it to a spy, it's really bad news for you. But if you're a spy, you can purposefully gain trust by giving it to a rebel, and hope to get sent on a mission, but at the cost of clearing a rebel 100%.

It's a really powerful card, any way you slice it, but it's an interesting concept.

Some thoughts on the extra condition:

-You can only play it as the hammer
Meaning people wouldn't want the person with the Kamikaze to get the hammer, making things interesting.

-You can only play it while sitting next to the hammer
Meaning it's conditional and a bit more likely to occur than the above.

What both worries and excites me is all of the situations in which Kamikaze interacts with cards that steal cards (Take Responsibility, Pandemonium) or Misinformation (which cancels a plot card).

Making the condition tied to the hammer also gives power to controlling who the hammer is, with cards such as Strong Leader, Fillibuster, and Turn the Tide taking on a defensive nature.


One other idea:

You can only play it while the game is tied.
Making it conditional and not so rare and not so complicated.
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Clyde W
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Nice Brady, I like it. I like the condition that it may only be used if you're the hammer.
 
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