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Subject: thematic or not rss

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Paul Wingrove
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Can anybody tell me why Eclipse keeps going from No.1 BGG ranked thematic game to not having a thematic rank at all?
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Adam Vajcovec
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In the game's Information under Subdomain, click on vote, then click on results. Whether or not a game shows up in a subdomain depends on the percentage of votes for that subdomain. Compare Eclipse with Mage Knight Board Game. Eclipse has Thematic at 29.5% and Strategy at 68.2%, and only shows up in the Strategy listings at the moment. Mage Knight has Thematic at 45.8% and Strategy at 54.2%, and shows up in both. My guess is the threshold for making the list is around 30% of the votes. As the votes change Eclipse appears and disappears from the Thematic listings.
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Kelly Page
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If the cut-off is 30%, then a few votes could make it go from #1 Thematic, to not in the Thematic subdomain.
I wonder if we can start a campaign to get it to the #1 Party and #1 Family games?
 
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Daniel Hammond
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DrRednek wrote:
If the cut-off is 30%, then a few votes could make it go from #1 Thematic, to not in the Thematic subdomain.
I wonder if we can start a campaign to get it to the #1 Party and #1 Family games?


By using advanced Eridani and Orion tech I bet you could.
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Richard Young
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BaseTwelve wrote:
In the game's Information under Subdomain, click on vote, then click on results. Whether or not a game shows up in a subdomain depends on the percentage of votes for that subdomain. Compare Eclipse with Mage Knight Board Game. Eclipse has Thematic at 29.5% and Strategy at 68.2%, and only shows up in the Strategy listings at the moment. Mage Knight has Thematic at 45.8% and Strategy at 54.2%, and shows up in both. My guess is the threshold for making the list is around 30% of the votes. As the votes change Eclipse appears and disappears from the Thematic listings.


That may explain how a title gets into a category but how is the score then calculated to place it in the category? For example Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization is #2 in the Strategy category but only #3 overall while Agricola is #2 overall but only #3 in the Strategy category. This while Eclipse goes from #1 to non-existent? Higher math? Voodoo? Might there be something better?

Shouldn't the number of votes mean something? Going back to the Mage Knight Board Game example, twice as many people voted to place Eclipse in the Thematic category as did vote for the other title but as the smaller number was a bigger percentage that carries the day? I think the sub-domain categories should get the same treatment as do the overall rankings, or at least close to the same, or the results are meaningless. The poll should ask for a number (1-10) in the category you think best applies and it doesn't have to be the same as your overall rating. Either that or list the sub-domains but don't number rank them if they can't be more accurate. I'm just saying...
 
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Adam Vajcovec
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Bubslug wrote:
Higher math? Voodoo? Might there be something better?

Voodoo.

This actually gets discussed quite a bit, so you're not alone in your wondering. Take a search through the BGG General forum and you'll find lots of discussions about the rankings and subdomains. For example, this recent thread claims that for a vote to count in the subdomain rankings, that user must have rated other games in that subdomain, whereas all votes are considered in the main rankings. Also that the subdomain rankings get a different number of dummy votes added as a result of this disparity in vote count. Finally, it's worth noting that the exact ranking algorithm is intentionally kept secret to stop people from gaming the system. You're welcome to suggest adjustments or alternatives, but good luck finding out the exact voodoo being used.
 
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Jim Richardson

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DrRednek wrote:
If the cut-off is 30%, then a few votes could make it go from #1 Thematic, to not in the Thematic subdomain.
I wonder if we can start a campaign to get it to the #1 Party and #1 Family games?


Or, if everyone actually used the system correctly and honestly instead of screwing around with it, we could actually have game rankings that reflect reality and help people make informed decisions.
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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ParticleMan wrote:
[...]we could actually have game rankings that reflect reality[...]

The reality of an aggregate of subjective, fluctuating opinions?
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Antti Autio
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ParticleMan wrote:
DrRednek wrote:
If the cut-off is 30%, then a few votes could make it go from #1 Thematic, to not in the Thematic subdomain.
I wonder if we can start a campaign to get it to the #1 Party and #1 Family games?


Or, if everyone actually used the system correctly and honestly instead of screwing around with it, we could actually have game rankings that reflect reality and help people make informed decisions.


Agreed!

Also, to the poster you quoted: I don't think there is any hard cut-off %. It seems to me that if one subdomain has at least twice the amount of votes than the next, the game will be listed in just one category. If the difference is less it will be listed in two categories.

The ranking within The subcategories has nothing to do with the definition of that category. I suspect it's just based on the overall ranking but shows only the games that are listed in that category.
 
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Simon Kamber
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aautio wrote:
The ranking within The subcategories has nothing to do with the definition of that category. I suspect it's just based on the overall ranking but shows only the games that are listed in that category.


As I understand it, it reflects the overall ranking, but with a lower number of ghost votes. So a game with few, but high, ratings is going to be represented better in the specific category than in the overall rankings.
 
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