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Subject: Anyone else feel like this game is too short? rss

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Trey Chambers
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There are all these mechanisms for gaining extra officials and putting samurai out on the board, yet every single game I play seems to be won by the person who put out the least amount of samurai and bought the least amount (usually zero) of extra officials.

I think the game would be better if you remove the VP cap and just play all 10 turns. Then you might actually see some value return in your investment of extra cards, more officials, and extra samurai out on the board.

There just seems to be too few actions for all of that extra stuff to matter. The game tends to end in 6 or 7 rounds, the winner being someone who didn't buy any officials and used one samurai the whole game to build some fortresses.

It's very discouraging because I think the game has otherwise a lot of potential.
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Shawn Macleod
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I never feel discouraged after a game or question the rules. However, I do often feel like the game ended quickly, but not necessarily too soon. I've played the game at least a dozen times and haven't yet felt this "quickly" versus "too soon" feeling needed to be resolved. I'm more inclined to think it is the result of a really good game that moves along quickly with little down time between turns.

The more I think about it the more I realize that with time my gaming group has gotten a better feel for the game. Therefore, we don't really end a game thinking it ended too soon and before any "climactic moments". Maybe our timing was off for the first couple games, but that is typically the case with many games.

Sorry I couldn't provide anything more constructive.
 
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Nathan Squires
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I win a decent percentage of my games, and I always buy at least 2 officials, I almost always have 2 samurai out (except for the end when I usually spam the board with the rest for points), and I usually buy a action card first turn (unless they suck).

How the game plays depends on how many people I play with. With 2 or 4 people resource spots are more scarce (0.5 spots/type/person), so it's easier for people to block the resources necessary to keep spitting out fortresses. With 3 people there are ~0.667 spots/type/person, so everyone spreads out and gets whatever resources they need fairly easily.

If someone is camping on stone to grab as much as they can for building fortresses, you can sit on the same spot and deny them some of their resources, especially if they don't have many samurai on the board. Also, don't forget that only one fortress can be built for every two houses in a city, so if you know a city is going to have two houses soon you can plan to build your own fortress, and deny your opponent that way.

I think one of the best parts of this game is trying to determine what your opponents are going to do, and then figure out how you can slow them down or stop them and advance your own cause. All the while, you have the tension of not quite having enough actions or time to do everything you want. For me it makes the game feel fast, but not short.
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Trey Chambers
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mrquackers wrote:
I win a decent percentage of my games, and I always buy at least 2 officials, I almost always have 2 samurai out (except for the end when I usually spam the board with the rest for points), and I usually buy a action card first turn (unless they suck).

How the game plays depends on how many people I play with. With 2 or 4 people resource spots are more scarce (0.5 spots/type/person), so it's easier for people to block the resources necessary to keep spitting out fortresses. With 3 people there are ~0.667 spots/type/person, so everyone spreads out and gets whatever resources they need fairly easily.

If someone is camping on stone to grab as much as they can for building fortresses, you can sit on the same spot and deny them some of their resources, especially if they don't have many samurai on the board. Also, don't forget that only one fortress can be built for every two houses in a city, so if you know a city is going to have two houses soon you can plan to build your own fortress, and deny your opponent that way.

I think one of the best parts of this game is trying to determine what your opponents are going to do, and then figure out how you can slow them down or stop them and advance your own cause. All the while, you have the tension of not quite having enough actions or time to do everything you want. For me it makes the game feel fast, but not short.


So if someone buys 1 card (heaven forbid they get the +1 stone card), 0 officials, and maximizes the use out of one samurai, how do you expect to beat him?

Waste one of your samurai by camping stone all game is really your solution? That just throws it to one of the other players or the third player if it's a 3 player game.

Well before you get your officials/extra samurai to pay off, they've ended the game in 5 or 6 maybe 7 turns at most.
 
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Thomas Büttner-Zimmermann
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I agree, that it seldom made sense in our games to buy more than one extra card. Also, to put more than two Samurais into play never seemed to work out.
Personally, I prefer to get the Stonex2 card, since you gain much stone with only one Samurai - and have a good chance to get an empty stone field, too!

But that's the game, and I don't like it any less. Getting Officials or extra cards is an action - and actions are the really rare ressource in this game. Plus you waste an Official/Samurai with that action. So either you get your Officials right in the first turn, so they pay off, or you never get them at all.

Also, maybe you have to play heavily against the player with only one Samurai. Camping the ressource Spots CAN work in a two player game - but never in a three or four player game... But thats only my opinion.
 
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Lee Fisher
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I find it hard to imagine playing with a single samurai. I guess the saving on rice may make it worth it? It seems like it would be very hard to get resources with one samurai and no extra officials.
 
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Nathan Squires
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Shampoo4you wrote:
So if someone buys 1 card (heaven forbid they get the +1 stone card), 0 officials, and maximizes the use out of one samurai, how do you expect to beat him?

Waste one of your samurai by camping stone all game is really your solution? That just throws it to one of the other players or the third player if it's a 3 player game.

Well before you get your officials/extra samurai to pay off, they've ended the game in 5 or 6 maybe 7 turns at most.


I agree that camping doesn't work in a three player game and is less effective in a four player game, but in a two player game it is quite effective.

If a player buys the 1 stone/official card, and tries to accumulate stone that way, they aren't going to be able to gain resources as fast as someone who has two samurai and can get resources from two spots with one action.

How is this fortress building player making any money? Fortresses are expensive, and you need houses or a trading post in cities to make any money, unless you use the 5 ryo action a lot, but that's really inefficient and slow. I almost never find that action to be useful. He also must build a house in Edo or he can't win.

It seems like something is missing here, I don't see the 1 samurai and build fortresses as a viable strategy. I'll have round up some people to play so I can give it a shot.
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Stefan Malz
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Hello,

Shampoo4you wrote:
There just seems to be too few actions for all of that extra stuff to matter.

If you really think that EDO is too short, you can easily increase the playing time and the variability of the basic strategies:

1) Increase the end-of-game trigger from 12 to 15 or even 18 Power Points.

2) Shorten the initial setup phase to one round where the resource packages are chosen. Do not set an initial house and samurai onto the board.

Although this is how the game was originally designed, I since prefer the newer, shorter version of the game because it concentrates on the main aspect: predicting the other players' moves.

Maybe you will agree after some more games with the final rules...

Best regards
Stefan Malz
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Trey Chambers
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malzspiele wrote:
Hello,

Shampoo4you wrote:
There just seems to be too few actions for all of that extra stuff to matter.

If you really think that EDO is too short, you can easily increase the playing time and the variability of the basic strategies:

1) Increase the end-of-game trigger from 12 to 15 or even 18 Power Points.

2) Shorten the initial setup phase to one round where the resource packages are chosen. Do not set an initial house and samurai onto the board.

Although this is how the game was originally designed, I since prefer the newer, shorter version of the game because it concentrates on the main aspect: predicting the other players' moves.

Maybe you will agree after some more games with the final rules...

Best regards
Stefan Malz


A ha! It makes sense that the game was designed longer, because there's like 100 official meeples, but the winner always seems to be the player with the fewest officials!

I think the game should go to 15 points to allow for more interesting strategies. Then you could even consider buying 2 cards and/or some extra officials.
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Nathan Squires
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The funny thing is, the first couple games I played I missed the part where you get both resource pile and an initial house, and I couldn't figure out why those games seemed so tougher... I'll have to try more of those as well.
 
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Evan Duly
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Bumping this thread to see if the OP ever tried out the designer's longer variant, and if so, did it increase your enjoyment of the game?
 
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Trey Chambers
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EvanDevan wrote:
Bumping this thread to see if the OP ever tried out the designer's longer variant, and if so, did it increase your enjoyment of the game?


Never tried. I generally don't like house rules/variants, so I just sold it.
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Evan Duly
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Ok thanks for the response.
 
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Shawn Macleod
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I feel the game is fantastic and well balanced as is.
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Don Lynch
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Anyone else feel like this game is too short?

No. Wrong question.
 
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