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Subject: Two Different Card Ideas rss

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Robert Burke
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Two graphical ideas for Battle For Souls' temptation cards. The first one is a minimalist idea, and the other includes medieval art that fits the theme.

I am leaning to the one with the medieval art, although I we will likely make the border much larger, increase the text size, and move the text further to the corners.

Players will be creating sets with 7 different color cards that each correspond to the 7 deadly sins. So the only important information for gameplay is the name of the sin and the color. Players will be fanning a set of 5 in their hand each turn.






Poll
Which card design direction do you like better?
The minimalist design with the symbol in the middle
The design with the Adam and Eve art
      37 answers
Poll created by Tinyelvis


 
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Wyckyd
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The medieval art is nice, but I don't like how it's pasted into the card. If you want to use are like that, I think you should present in some kind of border. And the name should be on the border, not in the art.

But I actually really like the minimalist design you made. I can imagine that working really well if you want to quickly determine if you've collected a set.
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Wyckyd
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(Also, if the cards are going to have different colors, the version with art could become very crowded.)
 
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Robert Burke
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Wyckyd wrote:
The medieval art is nice, but I don't like how it's pasted into the card. If you want to use are like that, I think you should present in some kind of border. And the name should be on the border, not in the art.

But I actually really like the minimalist design you made. I can imagine that working really well if you want to quickly determine if you've collected a set.


Ye if we do go with the art version the border would need to be twice as wide and the text should be on the border as you noted.

I'm currently pretty torn between the two, so your feedback is very much appreciated. I may print some protos with both versions and see how they work in real life.
 
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Todd M
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Lack of functionality can kill a game, but alone it won't make it a hit.

I think you'll do better immersing players in a battle for souls if they have visual context.
 
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Robert Burke
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zephaus wrote:
Lack of functionality can kill a game, but alone it won't make it a hit.

I think you'll do better immersing players in a battle for souls if they have visual context.


Maybe a different piece of art for each mortal sin?
 
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Jeremy Peet
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Go minimal. I like the initial design but you may want to add a bit of yellow/ochre or off white to allow the purple to "Pop". You may also want to consider a thin border on the outside edge of the card.

The iconography of the Adam and Eve image may be a little too "loaded" to accomplish a clear and playable card concept.

good luck!
 
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Andreas Pelikan
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I'd like something in between. The first one looks too minimalistic, and the second one overloaded, with too thin a purple border. So maybe shrink the painting and surround it by a wooden frame (golden or purple) with 'Pride' outside of the frame.

Or another idea (excuse the lousy cropping):


Tinyelvis wrote:
Maybe a different piece of art for each mortal sin?

Yes, please!
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Emanoel Melo
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Puschl wrote:
I'd like something in between. The first one looks too minimalistic, and the second one overloaded, with too thin a purple border. So maybe shrink the painting and surround it by a wooden frame (golden or purple) with 'Pride' outside of the frame.

Or another idea (excuse the lousy cropping):




This one is excellent!
 
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Wyckyd
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I like the mock up you made.. but am still partial to the original minimalist design.
 
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Stentor Danielson
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I like the minimalist concept, but the symbol fades into the background too much. If it had thicker, whiter lines to make it stand out, I would vote for it with no hesitation.
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Robert Burke
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Decided to go minimal. May use different symbols for each virtue/sin.
We will be making the font larger and the symbol pop out more as suggested.
Thanks!

An here's an intercession card redo.

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I like the minimal too - and agree that the symbol should stand out more.

Name of the sin in bigger text would be good too, assuming that's a standard sized card.
 
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Gary Simpson

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My 2 cents:

There is a bit of context that is jarring to me -- as you are showing these works of romantic art, you are putting them in the context of your game world. But whether its the St. Nicholas in the real world or in your game world -- who is he? What is an intercession? Is that good (good in the game-sense or good in the good vs. evil sense)?

If I can't put the images into context, my play brain is just going to look at the mechanics and discount the imagery after that. I know that you'll probably going to keep the fine art in it as anthromorphic representation but I think iconography would be stronger for players overall.
 
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Robert Burke
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gsimpson wrote:
My 2 cents:

There is a bit of context that is jarring to me -- as you are showing these works of romantic art, you are putting them in the context of your game world. But whether its the St. Nicholas in the real world or in your game world -- who is he? What is an intercession? Is that good (good in the game-sense or good in the good vs. evil sense)?

If I can't put the images into context, my play brain is just going to look at the mechanics and discount the imagery after that. I know that you'll probably going to keep the fine art in it as anthromorphic representation but I think iconography would be stronger for players overall.


The Card is actually St. Thomas More. Intercession as in Intercession of the Saints. Saints interceding on your behalf against the powers of the devil. The intercession cards are all saints who offer benefits to the player(s) on the side of heaven. We are using classic works of art of real saints as in this example. So although you don't need to know the art, or the saints represented, they are historically accurate even down to the bonuses we chose each to convey to the player who uses them.

 
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Gary Simpson

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We are using classic works of art of real saints as in this example. So although you don't need to know the art, or the saints represented, they are historically accurate even down to the bonuses we chose each to convey to the player who uses them.


Right.
But you are putting these classics works in the context of your game. I still have the previous context of these works as they exist in history, so that has two effects on me:

1. It looks like public domain was scrapped together.
2. It looks very catholic.

Personally, I think the game would have a stronger identity with a wider general appeal if it used iconography or at the very least new imagery. Again, just my two cents.
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Robert Burke
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gsimpson wrote:
Quote:
We are using classic works of art of real saints as in this example. So although you don't need to know the art, or the saints represented, they are historically accurate even down to the bonuses we chose each to convey to the player who uses them.


Right.
But you are putting these classics works in the context of your game. I still have the previous context of these works as they exist in history, so that has two effects on me:

1. It looks like public domain was scrapped together.
2. It looks very catholic.

Personally, I think the game would have a stronger identity with a wider general appeal if it used iconography or at the very least new imagery. Again, just my two cents.


As far as the theme goes it is absolutely Catholic, intentionally. The works used are all favorites of mine and a great cross section of religious art history.
Developing iconography would work, but not as well as using masterworks that are more representative of the theme than anything a modern designer could produce precisely because of the history. The main deck will be minimal, but the important cards will be as the St. Thomas More card seen here.

Many of paintings used in the game were commissioned by the church to teach about the spiritual battle the game simulates. So to me, there simply is no better option. My hope is that some players will be introduced to some of these masterworks in the proces.

Thanks for sharing your opinion, but I must respectfully disgree. If my goal was a "wider general appeal" I'd be working on a party game to pitch to Hasbro.
 
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Gary Simpson

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Thanks for sharing your opinion, but I must respectfully disgree. If my goal was a "wider general appeal" I'd be working on a party game to pitch to Hasbro.


You posted for opinions so that's what I offer.

Let's be honest, why marginalize your own work? When did appealing to a wider audience mean something bad? To use an analogy, if you make music, then don't you want more people to be able to appreciate it?
 
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Robert Burke
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gsimpson wrote:
Quote:
Thanks for sharing your opinion, but I must respectfully disgree. If my goal was a "wider general appeal" I'd be working on a party game to pitch to Hasbro.


You posted for opinions so that's what I offer.

Let's be honest, why marginalize your own work? When did appealing to a wider audience mean something bad? To use an analogy, if you make music, then don't you want more people to be able to appreciate it?


I am looking for opinions on the graphic design, not the art. The art is decided and has been for some time. But I do appreciate the feedback. And a wider audience is not bad. I never said it was, but that is not my goal with this project.

When you start compromising your vision for sales, it's time to hang it up. That's true in music, art, game design, and any creative endevour for that matter.
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Ian O'Toole
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I think it looks pretty good. Some of the text is misaligned, and I think the presentation of the information could be clearer.

I get what you're going for, but each block of text reads, for example: "to diligence +2 or Patience. I'd suggest putting the +2 on top, so that it reads correctly (I assume, not being familiar with the mechanics) as:

+2 (large)
diligence (medium)
or (small)
patience (medium)

I realise this won't look as symmetrical visually, but I do think it would be clearer. This format would also allow you to make the words "diligence" and "patience" larger, making it easier for experienced players to see the important information quickly.

I'd also drop the opacity of the darker linework in the background a little, but that's a small personal thing.
 
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Robert Burke
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Ianotoole wrote:
I think it looks pretty good. Some of the text is misaligned, and I think the presentation of the information could be clearer.

I get what you're going for, but each block of text reads, for example: "to diligence +2 or Patience. I'd suggest putting the +2 on top, so that it reads correctly (I assume, not being familiar with the mechanics) as:

+2 (large)
diligence (medium)
or (small)
patience (medium)

I realise this won't look as symmetrical visually, but I do think it would be clearer. This format would also allow you to make the words "diligence" and "patience" larger, making it easier for experienced players to see the important information quickly.

I'd also drop the opacity of the darker linework in the background a little, but that's a small personal thing.


Thanks Ian. Appreciate your input. I do see the slight misalignment.

I believe the designer put the number in the middle as a visual cue that the number can be applied to either color (each virtue's color is shared by a corresponding weakness)

The original prototype had way too much text so we wanted to simplify it greatly. Here's how it used to look.

 
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Ian O'Toole
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Tinyelvis wrote:
I believe the designer put the number in the middle as a visual cue that the number can be applied to either color (each virtue's color is shared by a corresponding weakness)

The original prototype had way too much text so we wanted to simplify it greatly. Here's how it used to look.


Yeah, I get why it was done that way, and it's certainly a vast improvement on the prototype, but there is a clearer way to lay it out. There are many gamers who will read the text and take it on face value, regardless of how the design arranges it, or cues given by colour etc.

Again, I think it's decent but a little rearranging would make it very clear.
 
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Robert Burke
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Updated virtue card.

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Wyckyd
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Yes, i really prefer this clean look. There's still plenty of detail in the background to make the design feel rich, without overcrowding it.
 
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I like this too! It's very clear.

The only criticism I have is with the all-caps font. I find the combination of vertical text and caps extremely difficult to read, personally.
 
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