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Subject: I have a question about the car rss

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azooz azeez
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I have a question about the car

I want to explain about the car

What is the benefit the car ?? Do I just move 2 zone or 1 zone??
Or there are other use??
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Thiago Aranha
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With one action you move 2 zones, with everyone that's in the car.

But the best thing is that it's a zombie-killing machine. You run over everyone in the zone you leave, the zone you go through and the zone you end up in. In each targeted zone, roll one die for each figure in the zone, hitting on a 4+. Hits are distributed using normal targeting priority, but the damage is just 1, so you can't kill Fatties and Abominations, nor any Runners hiding behind them.

Be careful to stay off the streets when someone's driving around, or you'll be run over. Also remember that it costs one action to get in the car, one action to exit it and one to move to a different seat; and that you can't get in a car if there are zombies in the same zone.
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azooz azeez
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When you are inside the car and its your turn ended and there are zombies in the same zone where I am

Can they zombies attack you and I'm inside the car during the Phase zombies Attacking ?
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Thiago Aranha
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Yep, zombies can attack you, and you can attack them.
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azooz azeez
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thanks
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Jeff Smith
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Since this thread is here, I thought I'd ask how others are handling car movement and killing. In particular, since you can move two zones per action, it seems like you could drive into and out of an adjacent zone three times (or more if the driver has additional activations) and each time you enter and exit that zone you would roll to kill the occupants (per the targeting rules, of course). So that's a total of six dice/die rolls for three movement activations, correct?
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Thiago Aranha
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If you're moving just back and forth between two adjacent zones, yes, if there are always zombies in both zones, you'd end up attacking 6 times with 3 actions. If you move back and forth over two zones, however, you could attack up to 9 times with 3 actions.
 
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Nathan O'Toole
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One more thing about the car, have I misseed it somewhere, or how much noise does tooling around in a car generate, and in what spaces?
 
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Thiago Aranha
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Driving a car does not generate noise tokens, as far as I understand. The only noise would be the survivors themselves, or if you fired your gun while driving.

Pimp-mobile must be electrical.
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Jeff Smith
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Cars seem to have great mufflers in this game. The collisions are also pretty quiet it seems.
 
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Nathan O'Toole
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So we're driving around in a Prius. That's just swell. Now I'm thinking there need to be collision rules for how tough the car is and how many people you can run over before the air intake becomes too clogged with zombie sludge, and such.
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Thiago Aranha
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Well, you'd imagine killing someone with a frying pan wouldn't be a very subdued affair either...
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Jeff Smith
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Loophole Master wrote:
If you're moving just back and forth between two adjacent zones, yes, if there are always zombies in both zones, you'd end up attacking 6 times with 3 actions. If you move back and forth over two zones, however, you could attack up to 9 times with 3 actions.
Let me be more specific. Let's say the starting zone has no zombies and the adjacent zone has 4 walkers. With one activation can the driver move one zone forward (thus entering the zone with 4 walkers and rolling four dice) AND move one zone backward into the starting zone (thus exiting the zone with any surviving zombies and roll again.) My reading of the rules says yes, but I wonder if I'm missing something.
 
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Jeff Smith
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Loophole Master wrote:
Well, you'd imagine killing someone with a frying pan wouldn't be a very subdued affair either...
well, it does require a "6" so maybe that has something to do with it.
 
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David Hoffman
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I've been mulling over the cars and just how overpowered they are, trying to come up with a good house rule to keep the game from devolving into "everyone get into a car and kill everything".

First off, a clarification: our read on the rules is that a player can only take a single drive action per turn. So you can't drive and drive and drive and drive, using your four actions to kill things in 12 zones over the course of a turn. You also can't, therefore, drive back and forth (forward, reverse, forward, reverse) in three zones until everything is dead.

Where cars are so overpowered -- to me -- is that there's no functional way for the zombies to stop you from driving around in the cars. So long as players are careful with where they end their turns, they can basically run the cars non-stop throughout the game. Especially if they end their turns by swapping positions with another mini in the car -- with four minis you can, again, cover twelve zones in one turn, really clearing out the board.

================

My thoughts -- and they're still only thoughts -- on limiting the power of cars is as follows. Please note: it would not be my intention to combine ALL of these, but perhaps one or even two together could work to keep the presence of cars on a gamemap from overpowering everything else, turning the game into a freeway murder simulator:

1. rolling some quantity / percentage of skulls / 1's when attacking (i.e., entering, driving through or leaving a zone) causes the car to crash -- seems like this might be too limiting.

2. cars running into fatties or abominations automatically crash -- also potentially limiting ALTHOUGH I could see groups gaming this, positioning survivors to kill the biggies and then, say, ducking into buildings to avoid the car, thus enabling the drivers to spend the game driving.

3. cars can only be used for one game turn, then they crash -- again, potentially too limiting BUT given how powerful they are, I think that could help keep the pressure on the survivors, similar to how creating a Molotov doesn't give a survivor an endless supply of Molotovs to toss throughout the game.

4. an additional die roll to see if the car crashes -- this could be interesting. Roll a die AFTER entering a zone and executing the attack. If you get a zombie head / 1, then you crash and the car's done for the rest of the game. Random? Sure. But survivors crash the cars they're driving in EVERY zombie movie ever. A one in six chance to crash might make you think twice before barreling into that zone with fifteen zombies, so that could be trouble, but I think it'd also be suspenseful.


================

Ultimately, I'd be interested to hear what others have to say about the cars. Initially, people in my group were ecstatic to have the cars to use in a scenario (number 03, I believe). After a couple rounds the board was essentially cleared and no one had any wounds. Those of us not driving around were basically taking pot-shots at the big guys and searching cleared buildings for weapons. The folks driving were reduced to min-maxing their route around the board so as to avoid, really, any risk at all.

I think the cars represent a fun element in a great game, but I think there's room for some tweaking to keep them from being too powerful. As they are now, there's really no penalty for driving the car and no incentive to not hop into one first chance you get.
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Thiago Aranha
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jbbnbsmith wrote:
Let me be more specific. Let's say the starting zone has no zombies and the adjacent zone has 4 walkers. With one activation can the driver move one zone forward (thus entering the zone with 4 walkers and rolling four dice) AND move one zone backward into the starting zone (thus exiting the zone with any surviving zombies and roll again.) My reading of the rules says yes, but I wonder if I'm missing something.

In that case you wouldn't attack that zone twice because you're just driving through it once with that first action. The fact that you enter and exit it by the same side doesn't matter. You left Zone 1, drove through Zone 2, then entered Zone 1. So if they were all populated you'd attack Zone 1 twice and Zone 2 once.
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Nathan O'Toole
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This is how we were playing it initially, but the rule states that whenever you enter, exit, or drive through a zone you roll. So I believe if you don't stop in the zone on that action, you only roll once for the drive through section. That being said, if you have 2 adjacent zones, A and B, on action 1 you roll for leaving zone A, move 1 space and roll for driving through zone B, and then roll again for entering zone A, as was stated up above on rolling 9 times for 3 actions. But I dont' believe you get to roll 3 times for entering, exiting and driving 3 a zone, because that just seems to be overkill to me. Either that or just further illustrates how OP cars are.
 
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Thiago Aranha
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Of course each time you move you only perform a single attack. You can't attack the middle zone 3 times in a row because you just entered, drove through and exited it.
 
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Nathan O'Toole
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ohbalto wrote:
First off, a clarification: our read on the rules is that a player can only take a single drive action per turn.


Hrmm. That's an interesting read of the rules.

The Rules wrote:
When the driving Survivor is activated, he can spend one
Action to move the car one or two Zones. This Action is not
a Move and is not subject to movement modifiers such as a
free Move Action, increased movement, nor is it affected by
disadvantages which are related to Move Actions (ignoring
the Zombies in the Zone of the car).


I can see where you get that you can only activate the car once, but it also doesn't say that you're limited to only spending 1 of your 4 actions on doing it, so I'm not sure I read it that way.
 
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Thiago Aranha
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ohbalto wrote:
First off, a clarification: our read on the rules is that a player can only take a single drive action per turn.

Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion.
 
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David Hoffman
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Loophole Master wrote:
ohbalto wrote:
First off, a clarification: our read on the rules is that a player can only take a single drive action per turn.

Not sure how you arrived at that conclusion.


It's right in the rules:

Quote:
When the driving Survivor is activated, he can spend one
Action to move the car one or two Zones.


Admittedly, that wasn't my initial interpretation. But after a few rounds of players zooming around the entire board, taking four actions a turn, one of the folks in my group asked for the rules and offered his interpretation that the words, "he can spend one action" meant just that -- you can do it once.

Also, it was our read that the words, "when the driving Survivor is activated" told us it was the first action of their turn. Which, um, seemed odd (would that preclude one jumping into the car, then tearing off down the street?) but again, a possible limitation on something that felt waaaay too powerful for us.

I would love to see some sort of clarification or refinement on the car rules (as may be noted above), but the idea of being able to take four drive actions per turn (or, well, three, with the fourth action used to swap to another driver), just seems overmuch.
 
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Thiago Aranha
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That's one possible interpretation, but one that seems erroneous to me. Saying you can spend one action to move two zones does not mean that you can't then spend one action to move two zones and then spend one action to move two zones and so forth until you run out of actions. If there was a limit to the amount of actions that can be used per turn to drive they would have said so.

Also, "when you are activated" does not mandate that the driving action must happen immediately, only that the driver must be activated for the car to be driven.
 
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David Hoffman
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Loophole Master wrote:
That's one possible interpretation, but one that seems erroneous to me. Saying you can spend one action to move two zones does not mean that you can't then spend one action to move two zones and then spend one action to move two zones and so forth until you run out of actions. If there was a limit to the amount of actions that can be used per turn to drive they would have said so.

Also, "when you are activated" does not mandate that the driving action must happen immediately, only that the driver must be activated for the car to be driven.


Okay. I don't disagree with you in interpretation -- though my group was convinced this interpretation was correct.

Back to the idea that the cars are too powerful: does anyone agree with us that they maybe need to be nerfed a bit? If so, any thoughts on how?
 
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Thiago Aranha
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Yes, cars are very powerful, but I don't think that's a problem. Killing every zombie in the board quickly is not really the objective of the game, and it can often be very detrimental to fullfilling the mission.
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Thiago Aranha
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Yes the driver must use one action to vacate the driver's seat, then the next player must use one action to change into the driver's seat (assuming he's already inside the car) and at the end of his turn he must spend another action to vacate the driver's seat and so on. So basically you're burning two actions per player if you use this tactic. And you can only do it with 3 survivors, cause you need the spare seat to move around, and if someone exits the car instead of changing seats, he'll be run over.
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