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Subject: Communicating with units & ordering individual units rss

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Alan Goodrich
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Can I order units on a seperate card from their platoon HQ if that card is connected by phone lines and has a CO or other such HQ with a phone on it? I guess basically my question is: do phones connect cards to cards, or only units to units?

Specifically, I moved my platoon HQ from the staging area to the first row, taking only some of its units with it. In future turns, can I use the platoon HQ's activations to command those left-behind units even though they don't have a phone? They are on a card in the staging area with a unit that does have a phone. Is that enough? Or can the units only be activated now by using activations from the HQ on the card with them?
 
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Ryan
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(Let's assume we're talking about 1st PLT.)

I think the answer is no, since the 1st PLT squad left in the staging area doesn't have a phone with them. Phones connect units to each other.

However, since the CO HQ is on the card with the squad from 1st PLT, you could have the CO HQ give a command to the squad. (Note that if it was the 3rd PLT HQ on the card, you could NOT do this, due to the chain of command.)
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Andreas Krüger
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The communication is only phone-to-phone. If you like, you can give your phone to a squad, but then one of your commanders will have to do without.
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Roger Taylor
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Welcome to World War II, when squads didn't have radios or phones.

Unless both sender and receiver have a phone, or a radio on the same net, the only way to communicate is visual/verbal (i.e., same card).

There is a gotcha about V/V communication that I missed at first: If either sender or receiver is in cover, they can communicate only if both are in the same piece of cover. Having your troops dispersed in cover carries a high price in command and control. I understood the seemingly idiotic offensive tactics of early World War I better after I played Fields of Fire.
 
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Alan Goodrich
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rtaylor wrote:
Welcome to World War II, when squads didn't have radios or phones.

Unless both sender and receiver have a phone, or a radio on the same net, the only way to communicate is visual/verbal (i.e., same card).

There is a gotcha about V/V communication that I missed at first: If either sender or receiver is in cover, they can communicate only if both are in the same piece of cover. Having your troops dispersed in cover carries a high price in command and control.


Well, my thinking was that the platoon HQ is calling the on-card superior officer, who is then verbally communicating with the troops. I realize this is, as a chain of command issue, is a no-go, but I guess my confusion was with how hazy or strict the communication rules are. There is a network, the simplest form of which is verbal/visual, so I was not sure how the verbal/visual fit in with the phone system.

rtaylor wrote:
I understood the seemingly idiotic offensive tactics of early World War I better after I played Fields of Fire.


True that!
 
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Roger Taylor
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cayluster wrote:
Well, my thinking was that the platoon HQ is calling the on-card superior officer, who is then verbally communicating with the troops. I realize this is, as a chain of command issue, is a no-go, but I guess my confusion was with how hazy or strict the communication rules are. There is a network, the simplest form of which is verbal/visual, so I was not sure how the verbal/visual fit in with the phone system.

In your example, the Platoon HQ doesn't need to call anyone. The Company HQ, XO, or First Sergeant can order the squad on their own since they are all above it in the chain of command.

The transmission of command from the top down might be easier to understand if you consider it apart from the means of communication. The Company HQ activates. It can give orders to activate Platoon HQs and Company Staff. Any HQ or Staff (either activated by the Company HQ or self-activated) can give orders to units under them in the chain of command. None of this can happen unless the sender and the receiver are in communication. If both parties have a phone or a radio then they can communicate remotely, otherwise it's visual/verbal.
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Alan Goodrich
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rtaylor wrote:
cayluster wrote:
Well, my thinking was that the platoon HQ is calling the on-card superior officer, who is then verbally communicating with the troops. I realize this is, as a chain of command issue, is a no-go, but I guess my confusion was with how hazy or strict the communication rules are. There is a network, the simplest form of which is verbal/visual, so I was not sure how the verbal/visual fit in with the phone system.

In your example, the Platoon HQ doesn't need to call anyone. The Company HQ, XO, or First Sergeant can order the squad on their own since they are all above it in the chain of command.

The transmission of command from the top down might be easier to understand if you consider it apart from the means of communication. The Company HQ activates. It can give orders to activate Platoon HQs and Company Staff. Any HQ or Staff (either activated by the Company HQ or self-activated) can give orders to units under them in the chain of command. None of this can happen unless the sender and the receiver are in communication. If both parties have a phone or a radio then they can communicate remotely, otherwise it's visual/verbal.


I do understand that the HQ could have issued commands to the units individually. My issue was that my HQ had few commands, which it needed to activate other HQs, so I was trying to figure a way to use my 1st Platoon HQ, which had more commands, but was forward of some of its units, to activate those units.
 
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Jeff Yeackle
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From 6.7.4, 2nd Edition Rules

Quote:
Indirect Lay firing requires someone who is eligible to command the Mortar to spot for him and give him an order to call down fire. The mortar can either have his own radio or be co-located on a card with another unit that has a radio (that is considered “good enough”).


This is the only thing that kept me from firing off an answer this morning and gives me pause.

I can't imagine that relaying commands to a unit on the same card would be too much different than relaying commands to a Mortar Section on the same card, which Ben confirms is possible as noted here:

http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@@.ee6eec3/2975
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Jeff Yeackle
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Annnnd, just found this:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/3827441#3827441

Oh well!

benhull wrote:
Acererak wrote:
Hi again

I read in the new Errata that for a Mortar unit to fire its Indirect Lay mission is good enough a co-location in the same card with any other unit that has a radio in the same Net as the spotter/commander of that order. My questions are :

- The mortar unit has to be in communication (same cover, no pin) with this other unit with the radio in the same card? (i imagine this is a yes, but just to clarify)


Yes

Quote:

- Can this co-location issue be applied to other type of units? Like for example the CO-HQ giving a command to a squad in other card through the Plt-HQ radio? In one example in the rules it clearly says it can´t, but since it seems to be same case as with this new mortar rule, just wondering.


No, have to stop a slippery slope.
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Alan Goodrich
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jyeackle wrote:
Annnnd, just found this:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/3827441#3827441

Oh well!

benhull wrote:
Acererak wrote:
Hi again

I read in the new Errata that for a Mortar unit to fire its Indirect Lay mission is good enough a co-location in the same card with any other unit that has a radio in the same Net as the spotter/commander of that order. My questions are :

- The mortar unit has to be in communication (same cover, no pin) with this other unit with the radio in the same card? (i imagine this is a yes, but just to clarify)


Yes

Quote:

- Can this co-location issue be applied to other type of units? Like for example the CO-HQ giving a command to a squad in other card through the Plt-HQ radio? In one example in the rules it clearly says it can´t, but since it seems to be same case as with this new mortar rule, just wondering.


No, have to stop a slippery slope.


Thanks for the official ruling! I have another question that, although unrelated, maybe has an answer: When I spot an unspotted unit, and it has multiple units of mine to target, does the enemy follow the same hierarchy that I do to lay down the PDF (closest, highest VOF, random)? If so, does this adhere as well if there are multiple targets possible when the unit is first placed (unspotted)? Or will the unit always immediately target whichever unit of mine caused said enemy to be placed via PC resolution?
 
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Ben Hull
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Quote:
I have another question that, although unrelated, maybe has an answer: When I spot an unspotted unit, and it has multiple units of mine to target, does the enemy follow the same hierarchy that I do to lay down the PDF (closest, highest VOF, random)? If so, does this adhere as well if there are multiple targets possible when the unit is first placed (unspotted)? Or will the unit always immediately target whichever unit of mine caused said enemy to be placed via PC resolution?


Unless you contact the enemy in motion they always come into to play targeting the card spawned the contact. Being spotted at placement has nothing to do with it. Unspotted units can be shooting you to pieces while you try and spot them.
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Jeff Yeackle
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cayluster wrote:
I do understand that the HQ could have issued commands to the units individually. My issue was that my HQ had few commands, which it needed to activate other HQs, so I was trying to figure a way to use my 1st Platoon HQ, which had more commands, but was forward of some of its units, to activate those units.


If you don't use your pyrotechnics much, this is an excellent example of where they can be a godsend. The more you play, the more you'll see where you wish you had a ton more of them, especially if you play with radios on offensive missions to be more historical.
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Alan Goodrich
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benhull wrote:
Quote:
I have another question that, although unrelated, maybe has an answer: When I spot an unspotted unit, and it has multiple units of mine to target, does the enemy follow the same hierarchy that I do to lay down the PDF (closest, highest VOF, random)? If so, does this adhere as well if there are multiple targets possible when the unit is first placed (unspotted)? Or will the unit always immediately target whichever unit of mine caused said enemy to be placed via PC resolution?


Unless you contact the enemy in motion they always come into to play targeting the card spawned the contact. Being spotted at placement has nothing to do with it. Unspotted units can be shooting you to pieces while you try and spot them.


Yeah, I was rather brain-burnt last night and am having trouble understanding what I was thinking. I was indeed playing correctly, as by the end of my last game many unspotted units were tearing my guys to shreds. I think my question really had to do with how to proceed if 2 of my units become viable targets for an enemy unit at the same time - I had (or thought I had) an example from play yesterday that bedeviled me, but it has escaped me now. In fact, I can't think of a situation where that would occur...

The rules are actually rather straightforward (once I locate them), it is the conceptual side that has stymied me. Great game!
 
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Alan Goodrich
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jyeackle wrote:
cayluster wrote:
I do understand that the HQ could have issued commands to the units individually. My issue was that my HQ had few commands, which it needed to activate other HQs, so I was trying to figure a way to use my 1st Platoon HQ, which had more commands, but was forward of some of its units, to activate those units.


If you don't use your pyrotechnics much, this is an excellent example of where they can be a godsend. The more you play, the more you'll see where you wish you had a ton more of them, especially if you play with radios on offensive missions to be more historical.


For some reason I didn't want to use them early in the game (saving them for a "crisis" I guess) and then forgot about them. Next game they will getting a thorough workout for sure.
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Roger Taylor
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Everybody can see a pyro, so you can get around voice/visual communication problems with one. I give each of my platoon HQs a different colored smoke pyro with the rally signal "N Platoon, move to this position."
 
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