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Subject: Julian Assange granted Ecuadorian Asylum rss

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Liam
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Fascinating case - Hollywood stuff.

Will Britain raid the embassy?

How much politics is involved in the case?

Will the US take action again Ecuador?

Are the sexual assault claims in Sweden Legitimate
(it's pretty horrible to ask such a question and I don't do so lightly but the case has been handled in a very odd way in Sweden.) And without ruling out extradition to the US - it's all rather convenient.

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R. Frazier
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Are the charges still based on the fact that he is alleged to have taken a condom off during consensual sex?
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CHAPEL
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monkeyhandz wrote:

Will Britain raid the embassy?



I think it would be smarter just to wait him out. Thing about attention whores like Assange, they thrive in the daylight.

He'll peak his head out sooner or later.
 
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Liam
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I'm not currently certain.

Taking off a condom during consensual sex without consent should be a crime.

This said calling it rape and not differentiating it from more coercive forms of sexual violence is harmful, IMO.

Further that the case was dropped by the chief prosecutor. Then 11 days later this is overturned by the Swedish Director of Prosecution - is all very unusual.
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Liam
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MWChapel wrote:
He'll peak his head out sooner or later.


Perhaps but having to stop and search every vehicle that leaves the embassy is going to be rather tricky.

Ultimately I don't believe any of the parties involved are interested in Justice - including Assange, Sweden, Australia, the US and the UK.
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monkeyhandz wrote:
Are the sexual assault claims in Sweden Legitimate
(it's pretty horrible to ask such a question and I don't do so lightly but the case has been handled in a very odd way in Sweden.) And without ruling out extradition to the US - it's all rather convenient.


What I don't understand is the argument that the attempt to extradite Assange to Sweden is part of a plan to have him ultimately extradited to the USA. I mean, it's not as if Britain's unaccommodating when it comes to US extradition requests. Why would sending him to Sweden make it easier for him to be extradited to the US?
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R. Frazier
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I can see the logic in asserting that it's in some way analogous to rape but if you compare the three scenarios:

1. Hey lets have sex I am a very rich person who will be very nice to you and wants to have a relationship (sex occurs, man is not rich, is not interested in a relationship)

2. Hey lets have sex I, I am a famous idiot and I will wear a condom (condom is removed during sex, however as promised man is an idiot)

3. Hey lets go up to my place for a drink (woman is forcibly raped once in apartment)

1 and 2 seem a lot more similar than 2 and 3. So clearly we need some kind of definitional line here.
 
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Liam
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My understanding is that the UK won't but Sweden might.

(I should say it would amaze me if they did but they have not said they won't. Franky with my stereotypical but respectful views of Sweden I'd be less surprised if they gave him a Nobel Prize.)
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CHAPEL
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monkeyhandz wrote:

Perhaps but having to stop and search every vehicle that leaves the embassy is going to be rather tricky.


Tricky, yes, but it saves the government from having to deal with repercussions and a possible international incident. Patience, it's an underutilized tactic.



He who is prudent and lies in wait for an enemy who is not, will be victorious.
- Sun Tzu
 
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monkeyhandz wrote:
My understanding is we won't ...


It'd be a first. I mean, we're happy to extradite a British student to the USA whose "crime" was "committed" on British soil, even if it wasn't recognised as such by the British courts. . .
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rylfrazier wrote:
So clearly we need some kind of definitional line here.


Isn't that what the courts are for?
 
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That the UK government has gone so far as to threaten the Ecuadorians with revocation of their embassy rights is pretty amazing stuff. The British generally just *don't* do things like that.

And this is London. I don't think they have an attached carpark. From the pictures at least it seems like anyone coming and going has to go through the police cordon out the front.

In these frugal times perhaps its the cost and annoyance of that which is actually prompting them to do something.

As to the extradition fear lets not forget at the heart of this Assange is clearly a bit of a paranoid nutcase.
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monkeyhandz wrote:
Are the sexual assault claims in Sweden Legitimate

This article details them pretty well.
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R. Frazier
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MWChapel wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
So clearly we need some kind of definitional line here.


Isn't that what the courts are for?


Well sure, but we are still allowed to talk about what the punishment should be, right?
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R. Frazier
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jmilum wrote:
monkeyhandz wrote:
Are the sexual assault claims in Sweden Legitimate

This article details them pretty well.


I tend to be pretty feminist and pretty pro-victim, and personally I think Assange is kind of an asshole, but converting that conduct if accurate to a crime seems kind of insane.

The condom tore during sex with him and he always whined about wearing a condom so he must have "done something to it" = rape seems like an enormous stretch.
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CHAPEL
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rylfrazier wrote:


Well sure, but we are still allowed to talk about what the punishment should be, right?


Shouldn't we address the legality of the extradition first? I mean, he hasn't even had his day in court yet, why argue what he may or may not receive by the legal system with the charge of rape, when he hasn't faced that yet?

People aren't talking about if what he did was rape because of it's definition. They are saying because they don't believe what he did was rape, that he should not be extradited. I'm saying, that's up to the courts of the land to decide, not public opinion.

You are allowed to talk about the definition of rape, but I am talking about the definition of extradition to another country to face the courts.
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Liam
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jmilum wrote:
monkeyhandz wrote:
Are the sexual assault claims in Sweden Legitimate

This article details them pretty well.


Thanks. I've given it a read it certainly raises serious doubts and it makes Assange seem like, IMO, a reckless and manipulative individual. Miss A's claim of violence requires more light.

'Honey-trap' claims certainly seem unlikely.

I would like to see a jury decide but would wish to see Sweden refuse to extradite him.
 
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Liam
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MWChapel wrote:
I'm saying, that's up to the courts of the land to decide, not public opinion.

You are allowed to talk about the definition of rape, but I am talking about the definition of extradition to another country to face the courts.


I think your right Chapel but the wider political climate and extradition fears make the situation more problematic.

The whole thing has certainly damaged the Wiki-Leaks cause, regardless of what one thinks about the group and their ideology.
 
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J
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Since Assange has yet to be charged with anything in Sweden, it seems a bit dramatic to extradite him simply to interview him. He offered to be interviewed at the Swedish embassy in London or Scotland Yard or via video link. Sweden said that wasn't good enough. Right. Apparently it wasn't "how they do things". Ok, well they also don't normally issue red notices for sexual misconduct either apparently.
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Mac Mcleod
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This has nothing to do with the alleged sexual crimes.

We put out less effort to arrest child molesters and murderers- frequently- probably are ignoring several right now.

Why are multiple countries spending huge amounts of money on this?

Surveilance of the embassy is going to cost $5k to $10k per month (or more). On top of what's already been spent. Who is funding all this effort? Why?

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It must really piss off the Swedish government to have an uppity country offer a person protection from them.

The UK reaction tells me the asylum offer was probably needed. It also sets a precedent other nations may use when people walk into a UK high commission asking for asylum.

I wonder if Julian is already in Ecuador.
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maxo-texas wrote:
This has nothing to do with the alleged sexual crimes.

We put out less effort to arrest child molesters and murderers- frequently- probably are ignoring several right now.

Why are multiple countries spending huge amounts of money on this?

Surveilance of the embassy is going to cost $5k to $10k per month (or more). On top of what's already been spent. Who is funding all this effort? Why?

PFFMA 30days X 4000 GG/day = 120,000 GG/mth
 
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Dan Schaeffer
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I do kind of wonder if the Swedish government would be so hell-bent on extraditing this guy if he weren't the Wikileaks guy and the US wasn't so hot on getting him extradited here. I mean, if he was just Jean Deaux and some Swedish girl accused him of sexual assault, and he went to England after talking briefly to the Swedish authorities, would Sweden have pursued him so doggedly?
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Damian
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MWChapel wrote:
Shouldn't we address the legality of the extradition first?

He's in the UK, Sweden wants him. They are both EU member states. Sweden issues a European Arrest Warrant which is valid across the EU and is far more sweeping that a typical extradition treaty.

Edit: Forgot to mention he has had his day in court. The UK held an extradition hearing, which ruled he was qualified to be extradited. he appealed this all the way up to the Supreme Court of the United Kingdom and lost every time. How many more days in court can he have?
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Jack Smith
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He has a legitimate case to answer in Sweden and that's that. The man's whole attitude makes my skin crawl.
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