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Subject: Trading with characters rss

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Jacob Kosman
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Pg 8, "Reorganizing the Inventory and Trading with Another Survivor"

"...The Survivor can simultaneously exchange any number of cards with another another survivor who is on the same zone..."

I'm not quite clear if this means if I have multiple characters in the same zone that at the beginning of each of their turns I can declare a trade action to pass a melee weapon around like the town whore or not. This seems a bit broken. How do you all play? Is there a rule somewhere else in the book that I'm missing?
 
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Scott Hill
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The way I read it is 1 Survivor can burn 1 action to swap X cards for Y cards another Survivor has.

So 1 action, 1 swap, any number of cards.

And, as long as you burn the actions, at the appropriate times, you can indeed move the same item multiple times.
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Aaron Rainey
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When you get into the red zone this becomes very important so that you can play a game of "Pass the Chainsaw".
 
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Mike Malley
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If that's more or less necessary to win the game, i am *so* tweaking the difficulty. For a game that's all about theme, that would kill us.
 
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Scott Hill
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caffeinehead wrote:
If that's more or less necessary to win the game, i am *so* tweaking the difficulty. For a game that's all about theme, that would kill us.


I don't think it is necessarily necessary - the game has a range of weapons that all have quite varied stats - so, whilst I think playing pass-the-chainsaw is a valid tactic, I don't think it's likely to be the only winning tactic.
 
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Jacob Kosman
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As follow up, can, for example, Doug attacks three times with an axe and at the beginning of Wanda's turn, can she use an action to take Doug's axe? Or, by "Exchange" do you think they meant to always have a one to one trade? Also, is spending an action to take an item not legal? Must the holding character burn the action?

Not that it makes a huge difference but three attack actions before needing to trade can make a difference. This all just seems a little dirty and, depending on the difficulty of the game, we may make it a house rule to not trade items that have been used, or at least two actors can't use an item twice in the same turn. Just want to make sure while we're learning we aren't cheating.
 
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Thiago Aranha
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From the rules, I'd say an exhange can involve any number of cards. You could trade 2 for 2, or 1 for zero. So yes, you can spend an action to simply take an item from another character.
 
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Jacob Kosman
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Loophole Master wrote:
From the rules, I'd say an exhange can involve any number of cards. You could trade 2 for 2, or 1 for zero. So yes, you can spend an action to simply take an item from another character.


That's how I read it too. Guess we'll have to play more to see if it's too dirty. Thanks for the help gents.
 
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Scott Hill
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I think the 'can you take an item' question is covered in the French playthrough video that's floating around somewhere. I believe in that the pair being shown the game spend one or more turns going "I take your pistol", "I take your pistol", until the game-designer player exasperates "Dudes! It's my pistol"! Or something like that (not speaking, or understanding, French means I heard of it 2nd or third hand, so I may have got the details wrong).

So, yeah, you can just 'take' an item - but it is meant to be a co-operative game, so the players should play cooperatively.
 
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Jack Reda
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We house ruled that you can give any item away as part of your reaarange action, but you can only TAKE items from another player that are not readied (in hand).
 
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Thiago Aranha
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Not really sure how that changes things. You're just forcing the "giver" to spend the action instead of the "taker" (which in my experience is what happens half the time anyway).
 
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Alexandre Rivaben
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Actually, I think we need a clear rule on it. Last week we played cenario 1 and we have a character with 2 weapons and 3 plenty of ammo. We grouped all characters together and spent 2 actions to shoot, 1 to reload and another one to "pass" all the kit to the next character. I think it's cheating the game, isn't it?

Another question it's not clear in the rulebook: Am I allowed to trade if there is a zombie in the zone? If yes, it's not to much realistic... :/
 
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Thiago Aranha
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Both of those situations are allowed by the rules.
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Scott Hill
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In practice I've found that, with the groups I've played the game with, although people are clearly aware of the ability to trade items, and there's the occasional round of trade-the-flash-light, the really exploitative tactics just don't get used, either because the Survivors are rarely all in the same zone (though we do generally stick close together) or everybody gets one or other decent and/or favourite weapon and just sticks with that.

Or, in other words, whilst the item trading rules can be exploited, it seems to be more a problem of the group you play with than anything inherent in the game itself.
 
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Thiago Aranha
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Having every character waste an action on trades is generally not a good strategy. Have each Survivor equip himself with decent weaponry and just go with it.
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Alexandre Rivaben
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Sometimes everybody is fully equiped BUT you have to agree with me that maybe one survivor has better equipments than the other, for instance, in my session, there is this guy who had 3 plenty of ammo cards.

The same can occur with the flashlight mentioned.

Also the rules are not clear if I shoot with a weapon that needs reload then pass it to another survivor... what does it happen? Does the survivor need to reload it?

We house-ruled it to YES but It's not clear in the rules. Also I believe it's kinda weird to trade items in the same area as a zombie, isn't it?
 
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Scott Hill
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Hogging cards (such as plenty of ammo) isn't exactly in the spirit of co-operation - again, that sounds like a problem with the player(s), not with the game.

And, yes, if you pass a Sawn Off, Ma's Shotgun, or any future weapons that require an action to reload, after shooting, but before reloading, then yes, the survivor that receives it must reload before firing it during the round in which it was traded.
 
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Thiago Aranha
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I believe that was addressed in the FAQ, wasn't it?
 
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Scott Hill
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Loophole Master wrote:
I believe that was addressed in the FAQ, wasn't it?


I think so. And/or the answers to my Questions for Guillotine Games thread.
 
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Alexandre Rivaben
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Loophole Master wrote:
I believe that was addressed in the FAQ, wasn't it?


I didn't find in the FAQ
 
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Alexandre Rivaben
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Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Hogging cards (such as plenty of ammo) isn't exactly in the spirit of co-operation - again, that sounds like a problem with the player(s), not with the game.


Sorry Scorpion but I don't understand your point here. Why these cards are not in the spirit of co-operation?

I really don't understand this, sorry...
 
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Scott Hill
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Rivaben wrote:
Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Hogging cards (such as plenty of ammo) isn't exactly in the spirit of co-operation - again, that sounds like a problem with the player(s), not with the game.


Sorry Scorpion but I don't understand your point here. Why these cards are not in the spirit of co-operation?

I really don't understand this, sorry...


It's the holding on to all three of them that's not in the spirit of cooperation.

Of course, if you've got the only Survivor with a shotgun (be they standard, sawn off, or ma's), say, then maybe holding on to three plenty of ammo for shotguns is acceptable, but, in general, I would want to see p.o.a cards being spread around amongst the group.
 
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Adam Souza
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Never played "pass the chainsaw" so I can assure you it's not a needed tactic to win, although I can see how it couldn't hurt.

Most of the time we trade gear, it's to get molitov ingredients, plenty of ammo, and guns, in to the hands of people who can use them.

 
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Alexandre Rivaben
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I played the scenario 1 4 times and we only get close to win using the "pass the chainsaw" tactic. But I felt a little disappointed, it didn't feel realistic and didn't match the whole tension in the game.

Don't get me wrong guys, I simply LOVE this game I just want to know if maybe there was some rule to avoid this kind of situation or I will have simply say to my group "ok, let's play without this tactic because it's like using a cheat code" or something else.
 
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