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Subject: Criminal faction rss

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Jack Wraith
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Since it seems to be acknowledged as the weakest of the three Runner identities, I thought I'd try to look at it first.

First off, Gabriel Santiago is easily the weakest of the three, since his ability, while certainly nice, is wholly dependent on a specific run and a successful run, at that. So, you're gaining 2 creds based on the cost of an action, however many creds it took to complete the run, and you gain access to a Corp card in hand that you may or may not be able to score or trash. Knowledge is almost never useless, but you can bet that any Corp player who sees Gabriel hit the table is going to drop ICE in front of HQ first thing, which means that the prospect of you achieving your ability becomes less likely via the Corp taking an action it often does, anyway.

Hardware:
Desperado certainly isn't a bad console for a cost of 3, but is less suited for truly assisting runs than the hardware of the other two factions.
Lemuria Codecracker has an expensive ability (an action and a credit) for intelligence that is, again, dependent on cracking the server that the Corp is already going to be barricading, anyway.

Events:
Inside Job is great and may be what enables those HQ runs in the early game.
Easy Mark could be an easy 3-card slot in most Criminal decks.
Account Siphon is nice, but pretty situational. I'd consider it only if you a) can make enough cash off of it to dump the tags AND turn a significant profit and b) have the actions to dump the tags. (Perhaps I'm too paranoid?)
Forged Activation Orders is another great card and it certainly could be used to trash HQ, but spending all your time wrecking the Corp's hand may mean that he's dumping decent stuff into Archives and the only reason you'd want to head there is if he was dumping agendas, but you can score those from HQ.
Special Order is probably an auto-inclusion in any Runner deck that lacks a tutor of some kind.

Resources:
Bank Job is a great one-timer if you don't feel you'll be looking at an agenda (i.e. no tokens present.) It's basically a way to earn credits for hitting remotes, rather than HQ. That's diversity, I guess.
Decoy is probably another 2- or 3-card slot in many Runner decks.
Crash Space will certainly enable the use of Account Siphon for a low install cost.
Data Dealer seems... odd for Criminal. With so many less traumatic ways of making money, this seems oriented toward inclusion in other faction decks.

Icebreakers:
2 killers, 1 fracter. So, no answer for code gates and, even though Criminal breakers overall have a good cost-to-boost ratio for strength, they also start so low that you're almost always going to be spending those credits, instead of applying them when needed. The extra ability on Femme Fatale is great, but at 9 cost to install and having the worst cost-to-boost ratio (2 for 1), that's a lot of money to pour into one program.

Programs:
Sneakdoor Beta serves the identity power well and forces the Corp to defend Archives, but at 4 cost and requiring 2 memory, I'm wondering if it's too expensive.

So, is the general strategy for Criminals to hit HQ early to try to build some bank and then use said surplus to grind remotes where agendas hopefully exist that haven't been plucked from the Corp's hand?

The lack of a decoder means that Gordian Blade will have to be in any Criminal deck. It's a steep influence cost, but since you can find it with Special Order, you can probably get away with just 1 of them as long as you're packing a couple Deja Vu, as well (that's 7 influence gone between those 3 cards.)
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Out of the Box, Gabriel has the following ways to deal with Codegates:

1) Crypsis - this rogue AI program appears in all OOB decks.
2) Forged Activation Order - think you know where a codegate is but it's not rezzed yet? Slap it with a FAO and force the Corp to rez it when they don't have the cash.
3) Femme Fatale - She's allowed to bypass ANY ICE for just a few credits. money well spent.
4) Inside Job - Assuming the Codegate is the first ICE you expect to encounter.

And, how many codegates do you have to worry about?

Five.

Cell Portal - and it might be more beneficial to let the recursion happen, especially if it's cheaper to break what comes before than for the Corp to keep rerezzing the 'GOTO 100' command... Eventually they'll get tired of it.
Chum - which you can ignore if you need to
Enigma - yeah, at least need to burn the 'End the Run' on this one
Tollbooth - Another 'End the Run' effect, and a prime candidate for Femme Fatale
Viktor 1.0 - with a built in Bioroid limitation letting you spend a click or two playing with it

---

Meanwhile, Gabriel has the best cash flow in the game and unless he's dodging traces, doesn't have much but his icebreakers to pay for.



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reed makamson
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1) ice on HQ is ice thats not anywhere else. corp knows you get a rebate of successful runs on HQ, so they gotta cost you 2 cred more per run. and thats about 2 less cred it'll cost you to run R&D and remotes. with sneakdoor beta down, that headache doubles since they have to provide equal protection to archives. their cost to protect HQ is now (X+2)x2, where X is what it is against a shaper or anarch, thats X+2 less spread out over other servers.

2) desperado is nice because it pays you. it makes the next run cheaper, and most of the time, the next run is most important thing. however, +1MU is a little weak. as for the lemuria codecracker, remember that double headache for the corp from point 1? it just got bigger! now they have to shut you out or else you'll scope out all their agendas and ambushes. I'm amazed this card is so cheap, and it's not even a resource. game breaker IMHO.

2) don't underestimate the crookedness of bank job. the reason you should take only 1 credit at a time is corp's last chance to rez cards is right before you decide to forgo accessing them in order to take credits. this can save your bacon against advance-able ambushes. I agree Data Dealer is a bit "why?". the only time i see it useful when you've codecracked a whopper 3 pointer, but you don't have the scratch to hit it just now. fortunately, you've previously stole a 1 pointer and installed the data dealer. even then a easy mark or sure gamble seems a better option.

3)as for no decoder, i kinda like wyrm/yog.0 better than gordian. but you're defiantly right about special order. plus ninja is vastly superior to femme fatale, 9 credits is just ridiculous.

Overall i think you're being a little magic-headed. your overall strategy will depend on your opponent more than any other factor, including the cards in your deck. what cards they bring to the table changes which of your cards are more useful and how best they should be played. criminals more than others embrace that. if you're looking for opening moves: against weyland or HB you can hound HQ right off the bat, make them shrink up and dump clicks and credits over-reacting. but NBN or jinteki probably won't play that. with them, you ignore HQ until just the right moment, right as they forget and lower their guard(or spread themselves so thin it doesn't matter what they're thinking)
 
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Bob Smithy

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I'm going to use criminals as a 2nd neutral, tbh. They have enough good cards to supplement another deck, and that's it.
 
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Joseph Courtight
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Crimminal is my favorit runner faction.
 
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Jeremy Owens
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Jackwraith wrote:
Since it seems to be acknowledged as the weakest of the three Runner identities, I thought I'd try to look at it first.


It seems to me that everyone making this conclusion are purely basing on speculation and not from playing the game. Not being at Gen Con, I obviously haven't played A:NR either, but while we're speculating...

Identity: I find early game resource advantage delicious in my ClassicNR games. Whether I get it hitting HQ early (and maybe pulling down some agenda points) or I get it from them wasting resources to over-protect HQ to try and hamper me, so be it. Additionally, I feel like the criminal cards play very well into his identity.
I'm not saying he's game breaking, but "easily weakest of the three"? Kat is good and I keep hearing consistent, but I've never played a game where I was installing a program or hardware once a turn. It's not like it's filling up the bank. Noise has 12 Virus cards in the Anarch Starter deck. That's a potential of 12 mill to the Corp and potentially putting juicy Agenda points in the Archive, which is pretty good. But that's installing all 12 of those cards, actions and cost.

I was going to address all of your points, but I really need to get back to work... so three quick things.

Sneakdoor Beta - Combine this with Gabriel's ability and it's a potent combo. You're setting the terms of the match and forcing the Corporation to work on your terms, imagine as corporation you're unlucky enough to draw 2 agendas in your opening hand and you're playing against Gabriel. You're obviously not going to plop both down unprotected just to get them out of your hand... I could break it down more, but if the Corp's opening hand has two agendas and Gabriel has Sneakdoor in his opening hand.... Gabriel is going to end up with one of those agendas, possibly both... and bonus money to boot.

Femme Fatale - Not a great breaker against all ice, granted. But against its "nemesis" ice? (and any type at that) That's well worth 9. (Especially if it's at HQ because it'll help pay for itself.)

Breakers - See BT's post. You don't NEED Gordian Blade.


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malhaku wrote:
Noise has 12 Virus cards in the Anarch Starter deck. That's a potential of 12 mill to the Corp and potentially putting juicy Agenda points in the Archive, which is pretty good. But that's installing all 12 of those cards, actions and cost.


Just a note, don't look only at Noise's programs, look also at his ability to recover them if lost.

Which puts his milling ability to greater than twelve -- again with the costs associated with doing such things.
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Jeremy Owens
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byronczimmer wrote:
malhaku wrote:
Noise has 12 Virus cards in the Anarch Starter deck. That's a potential of 12 mill to the Corp and potentially putting juicy Agenda points in the Archive, which is pretty good. But that's installing all 12 of those cards, actions and cost.


Just a note, don't look only at Noise's programs, look also at his ability to recover them if lost.

Which puts his milling ability to greater than twelve -- again with the costs associated with doing such things.


Touche... to a point. Parasite will be thrown around and go away, yes. Bringing back is good there.
But some others? Crypsis for example. The lack of love it's getting, the corp player will trash other things before that if they have a trash program prompt. So if it doesn't go away, the only way to play the other copies in your deck is to overwrite the program already there. So it's 5 credits to mill a card. Or Medium. If that goes away, I'd want to bring it back if I can obviously. But if it doesn't and I draw my other copy? I'm not going to overwrite the medium already there with a new medium especially since any virus counters would go.
 
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malhaku wrote:
Or Medium. If that goes away, I'd want to bring it back if I can obviously. But if it doesn't and I draw my other copy? I'm not going to overwrite the medium already there with a new medium especially since any virus counters would go.


What's stopping you from installing two?
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Enon Sci
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Dalek5 wrote:
Crimminal is my favorit runner faction.


Why?

Thematically, they are mine as well (though Shapers aren't too far from the mark either). Based on what's in the core, however, I'll probably only play them mixed.

Speaking of which, anybody else feel the Runner factions feel a little more "vanilla" than the Corp factions do? Sure, the Anarchs have a decent amount of flavor, but the Shapers are bland and so are the Criminals, at least compared to the exotic flavors seen in NBN, Jintek and Haas Bioroid. Arguably, Weyland is another vanilla faction, but this will all change in the expansion content.

Oh, and by vanilla I'm not denying they offer something unique. I'm just suggesting what sets them apart isn't very engaging. Jintek plays with traps, which necessitates heavy bluffing, NBN is all about the trace and tag game, plus unbreakable subroutines. Haas gives evil choices to the Runners, probably some of the hardest mid game decisions (clicks are very valuable). Weyland.. well.. Weyland is just a vanilla Classic Netrunner Corp that can toss meat damage around, but isn't tremendously great at that in the core outside of a notable card (* I'm looking at you, Scorched Earth). I guess what I'm saying is that the other three Corps, and the Anarch Runner faction, all demand a really unique style of play which I'm happy to see.
 
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Spyder Murphy
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byronczimmer wrote:
malhaku wrote:
Or Medium. If that goes away, I'd want to bring it back if I can obviously. But if it doesn't and I draw my other copy? I'm not going to overwrite the medium already there with a new medium especially since any virus counters would go.


What's stopping you from installing two?
Possibly, unlike it's predecessor Highlighter, the counters on one Medium don't stack with counters on another. A case of diminishing returns?
 
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Jeremy Owens
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Shockwave IIC wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
malhaku wrote:
Or Medium. If that goes away, I'd want to bring it back if I can obviously. But if it doesn't and I draw my other copy? I'm not going to overwrite the medium already there with a new medium especially since any virus counters would go.
What's stopping you from installing two?
Possibly, unlike it's predecessor Highlighter, the counters on one Medium don't stack with counters on another. A case of diminishing returns?


That I'm not so sure about. I could easily see a ruling over-turning it, but from reading the card it appears to be an extra card per Medium virus counter so the multiples would stack. Thus, two together would be powerful, but all of these Virus programs do take memory.

Look, I'm not trying to write off Noise, I'm just trying to point out that Noise =/= Jace's Erasure(http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiver...) and that Gabriel isn't a piece of crap compared to the other runner identities.
 
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Shockwave IIC wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
malhaku wrote:
Or Medium. If that goes away, I'd want to bring it back if I can obviously. But if it doesn't and I draw my other copy? I'm not going to overwrite the medium already there with a new medium especially since any virus counters would go.


What's stopping you from installing two?
Possibly, unlike it's predecessor Highlighter, the counters on one Medium don't stack with counters on another. A case of diminishing returns?


Medium's text:
"Whenever you make a successful run on R&D, place 1 virus counter on Medium.
Each virus counter after the first on Medium allows you to access 1 additional card from R&D whenever you access cards from R&D."

I have a Medium with 3 Virus Counters already and I install a second - because I have Grimoire it gets a counter immediately.

Now I run R&D, I successfully get in (checked before Accesses), so I add 1 virus counter to each Medium.
I now have Medium #1 with 4 counters and Medium #2 with 2 counters. I access 1 card normally, plus 3 for Medium #1 plus 1 for Medium #2, for a total access of 5 cards.

Looks like it's time for the Corp to run a Virus Checker again!

They may not directly stack based on token count, but they do 'stack'.

This is unlike Net Shield in the Shaper code library, which specifically will NOT stack:
Prevent the first net damage this turn.

Two Net Shields will both stop the first net damage really well, and then all the 'not first' damage still gets through.



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Spyder Murphy
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I should of explained myself a bit better.

The card accessing stacks across multiple Mediums. The Counters don't.

Ie. Three Mediums at the beginning of a run, one with three counters. You get to R&D and are now 4/1/1 you get to access 3 additional cards, not 5.
 
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reed makamson
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To get a feel for uniqueness, lets look at:
Faction specialties: the 4 influence cards, the un-splash-ables if you will.

criminal: account siphon. it's reckless, but if it works it's a hell of a thing. not only gaining a nice pile of cred, but causing the corp to directly lose liquid.

shaper: tinkering. can't find a hole? make one!

anarch, NBN, Jinteki: none.

HB: biotic labor. we are four credits away from doing the impossible.

Weyland: scortched earth. this isn't justice, this is punishment!

 
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James 3
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Gabriel's ability is definitely very good, and will cause the corp top have to adjust their defense plans, which is good. IF they are guarding HQ heavily, then you go the backdoor and they have to ice archives...other forts aren't as protected as they could be. Criminals are opportunistic in their targets. If they don't guard HQ...well, Account Siphon will teach them that wasn't a great idea, and running HQ for 2 credits and seeing a card is WAY better than using 1 click for 1 credit.

Installing virus after virus costs credits, which take time to gather. and more importantly...you only have 4 MU and need to install breakers too! yes, djinn helps alot, but sometimes MU is very tight. parasite recursion IS very strong with Noise IMHO.
 
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Shockwave IIC wrote:
I should of explained myself a bit better.

The card accessing stacks across multiple Mediums. The Counters don't.

Ie. Three Mediums at the beginning of a run, one with three counters. You get to R&D and are now 4/1/1 you get to access 3 additional cards, not 5.


Quote:
Whenever you make a successful run on R&D, place 1 virus counter on Medium.
Each virus counter after the first on Medium allows you to access 1 additional card from R&D whenever you access cards from R&D.

Scrupulous players could read this as the combined number of counters on any medium card after the first gives additional access.

Does the rulebook say that a card specifically only refers to itself or does this actually read as: 'any' Medium?
 
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Jack Wraith
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I wasn't trying to suggest that Gabriel (or any card) was a "piece of crap". I don't have enough experience with the game, old or new, to make declarations like that. I was just giving my first impressions and kind of hoping for responses just like this so that everyone could explore the possibilities while we count the days to the street date. Reed is probably right in that I'm being "magic-headed" about it, since the vast majority of my cardgame experience (outside of traditional stuff like poker) is with tourney-level Magic. I played from Beta up to Invasion and even that leaves me a decade out of touch with competitive play. I played a lot of Call of Cthulhu and a little bit of Game of Thrones, but only with a couple friends and no tournaments. Other than that, I've been playing Blue Moon. So, in that respect, I have some experience with card faction loyalties (moons), but the majority of my experience comes from resource-driven loyalties. In Magic and CoC, you're not confined to a set value. As long as you can pay for the card from your particular resources (land/domains), you can play it. So, my perspective on Criminal was partly driven by the question of what cards will it be able to take from other factions to fill in what seemed to be the gaps in its repertoire.

OF course, I think I'm colored by my gut reaction that a lot of the real "hammer" cards seem to be Corporate (Scorched Earth, et al), which makes the Runner, nominally the offensive player, seem to be defensive and needing to protect itself more than blow apart the Corp. Of course, both sides have offensive and defensive roles, but it's struck me that Anarch and Shaper seem to have more obvious "offensive" cards, which probably led to my interpretation of Criminal as weak (in addition to being influence by what seems to be the prevailing opinion.) BT, of course, makes some solid suggestions on how Criminal can be used.
 
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darksurtur
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Stunke wrote:


Does the rulebook say that a card specifically only refers to itself or does this actually read as: 'any' Medium?


It does specifically state that a card only refers to itself (p. 21).
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The Runner's biggest hammer isn't even a card.

They have the inate ability to Run against the Corp and steal Agenda (thus gaining score towards victory) without a single card played.
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Evan
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byronczimmer wrote:
The Runner's biggest hammer isn't even a card.


So, I've actually never seen Dr. Horrible, but uh...


(So far Criminal is probably my favorite, but we'll see whether my love for their defensive, information-heavy game holds out against my love for the Anarchs' combos and recursion (and Stimhack and Parasite))
 
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Jeff Lindsay
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I think you'll see a rise in people's opinion of criminal once they have more play time and a better feel for the meta in the core set. Criminal requires the most finesse to construct a good deck imo, but a well built and played criminal deck is potent.
 
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