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UPDATE: A bit of cross linking. Thanks to "Mark" for raising the issue, and to "David" for making the link to this thread. And here's trusting that "Trisha" follows the link, and takes this thread on board!!

https://getsatisfaction.com/goko/topics/offline_and_asynchro...





It struck me that there has been lot of comments being posted on various threads in respect to Goko's Dominion implementation. There seems to be a core group of BGG'ers who are being vocal (on both sides), however posts are being thumbed in support by many others. Whilst I am sure we can see the trends it is difficult to cut through to see what the true levels are. I wondered if was helpful to set up a thread where polls could be placed, and some sense could be made of it all.

I thought I would kick off with what appears to be the "top of the list" issue i.e. the lack of any offline capability.

If others want to add their own polls please so, I was also thinking e.g. polls around async. Either GM me the poll number and I'll drop into the first post... or just drop them into a separate post below. If this gets unwieldy I've move to a Geeklist.

Not sure where this quote came from

"At the moment, there is no offline mode for Goko's games, but Griggs said such a feature could be added if users demanded it."

but hopefully Goko are looking at this and it will give them sufficient data to make the "right" decisions!



OFFLINE V ONLINE


Question 1

Poll
Will you try out the current online only version?
Yes
No
Don't know/other
      461 answers
Poll created by Boom04


Question 2

Poll
In the absence of any offline functionality are you anticipating playing the online version going forward?
Yes
Yes, but level of gaming impacted by online access availability
Unlikely/possibly adhoc
No
Don't know/other
      446 answers
Poll created by Boom04


Subparts - answer depending on your response in Question 2


Option 1

Poll
If answered "Yes" to the above are you anticipating purchasing any additional cards to play online?
Yes
No
Don't know/Other
      261 answers
Poll created by Boom04

Option 2


Poll
If "Yes, but level of gaming impacted by online access availability" are you anticipating purchasing any additional cards to play online?
Yes
No
Don't know/Other
      171 answers
Poll created by Boom04

Option 3


Poll
If "Unlikely/possibly adhoc" are you anticipating purchasing any additional cards to play online?
Yes
No
Don't know/Other
      123 answers
Poll created by Boom04


Question 3

Poll
Do you want offline functionality?
Yes
No
Don't know/Other
      392 answers
Poll created by Boom04


Question 4

Poll
Is the lack of any offline functionality stopping you "investing" your money in this implementation?
Yes
No
Don't know/Other
      386 answers
Poll created by Boom04



Card Pack Pricing


Question 5

Poll
What pricing where you EXPECTING for the additional 12-13 card packs?
Up to $1
Up to $2
Up to $3
Up to $5
Up to $6
Up to $8
Up to $10
$10.01 or more
      272 answers
Poll created by Boom04


Question 6

Poll
What would be the MAXIMUM price you would pay for a 12-13 card pack?
Up to $1
Up to $2
Up to $3
Up to $5
Up to $6
Up to $8
Up to $10
$10.01 or more
      267 answers
Poll created by Boom04


Questions 7, 8 & 9
Courtesy of Teg2

Poll
1. Based in the information available on this release so far, what are your plans ?
Won't even waste time trying the free version
Unlikely to buy, but will give the free version a try
Likely to buy, but will certainly try the free version first
Will wait for reviews / more information before making a decision
Insta-buy
2. How important are the following features for you ?
  Not important at all Somewhat important Important Very important Indispensable
Native app (no wrapper)
Async play
Offline pass and play
Offline bluetooth play
Single player offline play (AI)
3. How frustrated are you with this release so far ?
Frustrated, no way ! This is exactly what I wanted, very well done Goko !
Mildly frustrated
Frustrated
Very frustrated
Incredibly frustrated
You don't want to know !
I have never ever been so frustrated about a gaming-related release in my life !
      445 answers
Poll created by teg2
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Dicky P
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (initially online vs offline)
[... just in case the space is needed] ninja
 
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Chris Martin
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (initially online vs offline)
There are more issues than this. The security flaws, the garish interface, the heavy-handed approach...
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (initially online vs offline)
chrisjwmartin wrote:
There are more issues than this. The security flaws, the garish interface, the heavy-handed approach...


As time moves on (and after this thread was originally posted) there are and will be more coming to the fore. [Not seen the heavy handed one yet though... what was this?]

If you have a specific poll in mind contribute away.....

 
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (initially online vs offline)
Perhaps we should add a question on who is willing to pay $12 per expansion for this game shake zombie
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (initially online vs offline)
maaikefest wrote:
Perhaps we should add a question on who is willing to pay $12 per expansion for this game shake zombie


$12 for Prosperity, Intrigue, and Seaside (probably hinterlands too)
I believe it's going to $18 for Dark Ages (Donald X. had posted about Dark Ages being broken into 3 packs where as all other big box expansions were 2 packs)
 
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (initially online vs offline)
Oogarasu wrote:
maaikefest wrote:
Perhaps we should add a question on who is willing to pay $12 per expansion for this game shake zombie


$12 for Prosperity, Intrigue, and Seaside (probably hinterlands too)
I believe it's going to $18 for Dark Ages (Donald X. had posted about Dark Ages being broken into 3 packs where as all other big box expansions were 2 packs)


Okay so that sounds like $5.99 per 12-13 card type - yes? I'll drop in a poll for this. As BGG polls are a one way trip (and can't be altered after creation) what cut off amounts/range are people thinking, $0.99, $1.49, $1.99, $2.99, $3.99, $4.99. $5.99, $6.99, More than $6.99.
 
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (initially online vs offline)
holy crap. I didn't realize the extra cards were going to cost THAT much. That's too much. I'm already buying the cardboard version, so paying an extra $66 for expansions is NOT happening (and that doesn't even include cornucopia/alchemy).

I haven't tried it yet, but if that's what they're asking, it's a write-off for me. I won't even bother firing up the base game.
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (initially online vs offline)
Boom04 wrote:
Oogarasu wrote:
maaikefest wrote:
Perhaps we should add a question on who is willing to pay $12 per expansion for this game shake zombie


$12 for Prosperity, Intrigue, and Seaside (probably hinterlands too)
I believe it's going to $18 for Dark Ages (Donald X. had posted about Dark Ages being broken into 3 packs where as all other big box expansions were 2 packs)


Okay so that sounds like $5.99 per 12-13 card type - yes? I'll drop in a poll for this. As BGG polls are a one way trip (and can't be altered after creation) what cut off amounts/range are people thinking, $0.99, $1.49, $1.99, $2.99, $3.99, $4.99. $5.99, $6.99, More than $6.99.


Simplify

"The maximum I would pay (per 12-13 cards) is:"
Nothing/wouldn't buy
Up to $1
Up to $2
Up to $3
Up to $5
Up to $8
Up to $10
$10.01 or more
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (initially online vs offline)
maaikefest wrote:
Perhaps we should add a question on who is willing to pay $12 per expansion for this game shake zombie

It's honestly not much more than you pay for Ticket to Ride online. $5 for additional maps/expansions that cost $20 for physical versions, plus you have to pay $20 for the base game to even be able to play while Dominion at least offers that for free. I posted this on another thread, but Ticket to Ride Online costs 20% of the physical version for all online versions while Dominion would cost about 25% of the physical version.
 
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (initially online vs offline)
Ticket to ride on iPad is $6,99. The expansions are 0,99 3,99 3,99 and 4,99
So $21 total.
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (initially online vs offline)
maaikefest wrote:
Ticket to ride on iPad is $6,99. The expansions are 0,99 3,99 3,99 and 4,99
So $21 total.

Wow, that is a bit cheaper than what I payed a few years ago. Of course, there probably aren't too many people that would jump for something costing $20 from the iTunes App Store so they probably had to redo their pricing structure.
 
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (including online/offline, pricing)
To console myself in this disastrous release, i just bought Ticket to ride for iPad. There is something worth the money. Already planning to drop cash on digital dominion, but forget it. Days of Wonder can have my money instead.
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (including online/offline) NEW pricing polls added
They need a buy-it-all-price for $49 or so.
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (including online/offline) NEW pricing polls added
Hockey Mask wrote:
They need a buy-it-all-price for $49 or so.


No game ... none ... is worth $50 on a phone. In addition, I doubt I'd pay $50 for it all on the PC as well, but I'd at least be more open to consideration.
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (including online/offline) NEW pricing polls added
fastlane wrote:
holy crap. I didn't realize the extra cards were going to cost THAT much. That's too much. I'm already buying the cardboard version, so paying an extra $66 for expansions is NOT happening (and that doesn't even include cornucopia/alchemy).

I haven't tried it yet, but if that's what they're asking, it's a write-off for me. I won't even bother firing up the base game.


I wish they would include download code vouchers in retail purchases of the game (maybe a proof of purchase system for previously bought games as well?).
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (including online/offline, pricing) plus NEW various polls added
SkywalterDBZ wrote:
Hockey Mask wrote:
They need a buy-it-all-price for $49 or so.


No game ... none ... is worth $50 on a phone. In addition, I doubt I'd pay $50 for it all on the PC as well, but I'd at least be more open to consideration.

But it wouldn't only be on the phone, it would be for all platforms, incl PC.
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (including online/offline, pricing) plus NEW various polls added
Axxle wrote:
SkywalterDBZ wrote:
Hockey Mask wrote:
They need a buy-it-all-price for $49 or so.


No game ... none ... is worth $50 on a phone. In addition, I doubt I'd pay $50 for it all on the PC as well, but I'd at least be more open to consideration.

But it wouldn't only be on the phone, it would be for all platforms, incl PC.
That seems to be the heart of the issue.... until we see improvements, it's gonna be $50 for something that's at best, half baked vs. native apps. At worse, you get a blank screen and can't do anything with it.

With the example of Thunderstone just logging on to Facebook, I'd rather just load it up via my PC. For Dominion, it is exciting to have a "buy once, run anywhere" model, but in addition to current issues, having no offline mode is just no good for me.
 
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (including online/offline, pricing) plus NEW various polls added
Hockey Mask wrote:
They need a buy-it-all-price for $49 or so.


I wouldn't pay even 1/4 of this for dominion or any iOS game for that matter. I'll just stick with playing the unofficial version if this is what goko is charging.
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (including online/offline, pricing) plus NEW various polls added
Jon Bon wrote:
fastlane wrote:
holy crap. I didn't realize the extra cards were going to cost THAT much. That's too much. I'm already buying the cardboard version, so paying an extra $66 for expansions is NOT happening (and that doesn't even include cornucopia/alchemy).

I haven't tried it yet, but if that's what they're asking, it's a write-off for me. I won't even bother firing up the base game.


I wish they would include download code vouchers in retail purchases of the game (maybe a proof of purchase system for previously bought games as well?).


That's exactly how I feel. Maybe the download codes could give a steep discount, instead of being totally free? Like $2 or $3 per physical expansion?
 
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (including online/offline, pricing) plus NEW various polls added
squigish wrote:
Jon Bon wrote:
fastlane wrote:
holy crap. I didn't realize the extra cards were going to cost THAT much. That's too much. I'm already buying the cardboard version, so paying an extra $66 for expansions is NOT happening (and that doesn't even include cornucopia/alchemy).

I haven't tried it yet, but if that's what they're asking, it's a write-off for me. I won't even bother firing up the base game.


I wish they would include download code vouchers in retail purchases of the game (maybe a proof of purchase system for previously bought games as well?).


That's exactly how I feel. Maybe the download codes could give a steep discount, instead of being totally free? Like $2 or $3 per physical expansion?

You guys seem to be forgetting that Goko is in this business to make money too. I doubt Rio Grande Games is giving them a cut of their physical expansion sales, so why should Goko give people that big of a discount from the physical product? A few dollars discount would be nice - nothing too huge, but Goko and Rio Grande Games would have to work out some sort of a deal where RGG reimburses them at least a percentage for each discount redeemed.
 
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (including online/offline, pricing) plus NEW various polls added
Not only is Goko in business to make money, Goko is not in business to sell board games.

Goko is in the "social games" business. They are working on providing the next Farmville. Gamers who want to spend less than $10 and play a standalone game are not going to be their market. These are the questions of greater interest to them and their investors:

Quote:
Publishers, developers, billing engines and analytics platforms come together at the only industry summit looking exclusively at how to monetize the digital gaming revolution

Acquire new paying players – Discover how to reach the millions of previously untapped players and markets that digital distribution opens up to your business
Monetization strategies – Learn how to create games that allow all your players to be payers, maximizing revenue from both low value players and whales
Retain players over the long-term – Harness cutting edge analytics in your games and keep players engaged, paying and generating RPU for years rather than months
Build a solid cross-platform experience for you players – Get your games on the raft of new devices, from mobile to Smart TV, and watch revenues multiply
The video games industry is undergoing a monumental shift towards digital. As the way in which games are delivered and consumed is revolutionized, the shift in the way games are monetized has shaken the industry to its core.

It is no longer as simple as selling a disc for $49.99, players now come in all shapes and sizes, and the bite-sized monetization that has opened the doors to a plethora of new customers and markets has created a whole new breed of players. With millions of new players to be monetized, creating a solid strategy that engages and converts the smaller payers, while still hooking in the whales, is essential.


http://www.videogamesintelligence.com/monetization/index.php

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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (including online/offline, pricing) plus NEW various polls added
So let me get this straight - I've purchased every Dominion card set, and now I have to pay MORE money to play online? I'm fine paying some fee but I shouldn't have to pay all this extra money to buy expansions that I've already purchased in real life.

This might kill it for me. I hardly ever play IRL because I have kids and it's pretty hard to get people together to play, so I play a lot on isotropic. If they shut down isotropic and now I have to pay $50 to play online, I might not do it.

I understand that people need to make money and like I said, I'm fine paying some fee, but it feels like I'm being charged twice and I'm not too happy with that. Plus, from what I'm reading it sounds like isotropic is way better than the Goko version. Can I just pay to play on isotropic?

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (including online/offline, pricing) plus NEW various polls added
Beaveman wrote:
You guys seem to be forgetting that Goko is in this business to make money too. I doubt Rio Grande Games is giving them a cut of their physical expansion sales, so why should Goko give people that big of a discount from the physical product?


I'm not forgetting that they are "in this business" to make money. I'm remembering that I'm not willing to buy the same game twice just because it now has two publishers.

I may not be a corporate accountant but I've been a consumer my entire life. I strongly suggest that Goko set the price at $1 per expansion (regardless of the initial purchase price). Knowing that expanding the game on the cheap will grease a lot of palms that simply won't bother buying part of a game because getting the whole thing digitally isn't worth $50.

Perhaps the biggest problem they have is their choice of which game to begin their cross-platforming business plan. Had they chosen one whose fan-made free version is either lacking or poorly executed, they wouldn't be setting the bar really high. And while Isotropic isn't perfect, it is astonishing, considering it is the baby of a talented fan and built so devotedly for free access/use. Add that this game's designer has used it for years and even someone who has never played can appreciate how good it must be. ... But more importantly, since people have been using Isotropic for free, Goko will soon learn that people are not happy suddenly being required to pay for something they had all along. Taking that other thing away is a strong-arm tactic and feels like banditry. Had they chosen to sell a digital version of just about anything else, they'd be more successful.

There are a lot of things that I already own that I can garner entertainment from. There are things that I can already do for free that I can use for entertainment. There are new things that I'd like to try for a new experience that I'm willing to pay for. I'm not willing to pay for something that I've already got or pay to keep using such a thing.

If it offers new features and is otherwise better than Isotropic, that would be a point in their favor. If Isotropic started to charge*, that is something I'd support. As it is, I'd rather explore new forms of entertainment. The Internet and the city around me offer plenty of opportunities that I miss out on playing the same game all the time. But I could rationalize that I can't beat the price value.

Since I can no longer rationalize that, I'll merely agree with Krugs: It was fun while it lasted.



* And not in a thuggish "give me money or I take away your toys" manner, but in a "hey, can you help me out so I can afford to keep making this available?" way. Goko's deal to have Isotropic removed stinks of "give me your money or you can't play -and- I'm taking away your other toys" and that is no way to build a loyal customer base. Absolute fail.
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Re: Goko Implementation - Polls (including online/offline, pricing) plus NEW various polls added
krugs525 wrote:
So let me get this straight - I've purchased every Dominion card set, and now I have to pay MORE money to play online?


So let me get this straight - I've purchased every Lord of the Rings DVD, and now I have to pay MORE money to get the BLUE-RAY?
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