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Subject: Place your "Bets"!! rss

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Jeremy Owens
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We seem to all be having fun speculating. Let's do it some more!!!

Poll
In tomorrow's (Sat 8/17) Icebreaker tourney at GenCon, the winner will have used what combination of factions?
Anarch & Hass-Bioroid
Anarch & Jinteki
Anarch & NBN
Anarch & Weyland Consortium
Criminal & Hass-Bioroid
Criminal & Jinteki
Criminal & NBN
Criminal & Weyland Consortium
Shaper & Hass-Bioroid
Shaper & Jinteki
Shaper & NBN
Shaper & Weyland Consortium
      125 answers
Poll created by malhaku


**Note: Obviously other factions can be influenced into the deck, this is primarily focused on the identity of the deck.

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B C Z
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Thank you for the well constructed poll.

I'm definitely curious to at least know the identity (if not deck makeup) of the two finalists in the tournament.
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Jeremy Owens
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I will admit that's partially the reason for making it. I'm hoping that since this is here, those involved will let us know how it all went down.
 
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Marcus Khoo
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Agreed! Great poll!

I'm curious, what kind of "metagame" if any existed in the original NR?
 
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James 3
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Check out the "Famous Netrunner stacks" articlaes from Top Runners Quarterly to learn alot about the original NR metagame. The unlimited quantity per card rule sure enabled some crazy things.

http://www.arasaka.de/content/articles/trq/trq.html
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B C Z
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lightmage81 wrote:
Agreed! Great poll!

I'm curious, what kind of "metagame" if any existed in the original NR?


Without the factioning, the metagame came down to the best of each major strategy.

I believe that even within dominant factions, we're going to see different sub strategies emerge.
 
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Chris Long
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I'm not so sure that Jinteki will be as dominant as this poll's early responders seem to think. The Net Damage is certainly very mean, but it's something you can play around. Of course, who knows what will happen at the actual tournament. Count me among those that would very much like to know the deck distribution at the top.
 
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B C Z
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From the first 79 responses:



Weyland and HB are getting no love.
Criminal faction is not anticipated to get a lot of play.

All other factions are well represented in the anticipated meta.
 
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Micheal Keane
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I think people are favoring Jinteki/Shaper for the winner because they anticipate most competitors will be playing those two since they're the recommended starters in the manual.
 
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B C Z
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Companion Poll here: Faction versus Faction - who would win each matchup

Which asks the question "Given two factions, who do you anticipate the victor will be..."

 
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Beyer
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radynski wrote:
I'm not so sure that Jinteki will be as dominant as this poll's early responders seem to think. The Net Damage is certainly very mean, but it's something you can play around. Of course, who knows what will happen at the actual tournament. Count me among those that would very much like to know the deck distribution at the top.


I have to say I voted for Shapers and Jinteki, but I chose shapers because I think an experienced player is able to weasel out some nasty things from that deck and as far as I recall, Jinteki has a few cards they can use to stall the access to agendas. If someone manages to hold off even very few otherwise successful runs with zaibatsu loyalty and Red herrings, Nisei MK II and a Cell portal I think you can drain bit resources quite efficiently while the runner bangs away at some of the data forts. I honestly think precognition is going to prove really useful as well.
Buffing ICE strength, rez cost and a few advance-able traps means you have a lot of bluffing potential on top of a lot of odd potential sources of damage.
Net damage isn't just about flatlining, if the runner is holding on to some cards he can't get rid of, but needs later, then net damage is not something you'd just wade into, especially considering how few 'tutor' options there are for most runners.
I honestly haven't studied the cards that much, but there is a certain vibe about Jinteki that I think a good bluffer/baiter can make a LOT out of.
Tags aren't for setting apartment on fire, although the threat is VERY nice, I'd much rather burn his installed resources any day of the week.

But that's all from about 50/60 classic games as a runner playing against a trap/tag heavy corp deck. The money are where it hurts...

Expensive thrash costs and removal of tags are like a second frakkin' morgage... and on that note: enter zaibatsu loyalty. Not only do you have to pay to get IN the server you have to pay to kill the damned card as well.
If you are close to zero bits, odds are the corp can sneak in an agenda while you replenish your bit pool.

And gods help me if the bastard used his zaibatsu to protect a project Junebug and you step on it first chance you get.

Heck just knowing this could be happening should put some people on the edge.
 
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B C Z
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Stunke wrote:
Jinteki has a few cards they can use to stall the access to agendas. If someone manages to hold off even very few otherwise successful runs with zaibatsu loyalty and Red herrings, Nisei MK II and a Cell portal I think you can drain bit resources quite efficiently while the runner bangs away at some of the data forts.


Zaibatsu Loyalty will not prevent an Agenda theft, it will only prevent an exposure (which currently only happen due to Lamuria Codebreaker (criminal) or Infiltration(generic)).
 
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Beyer
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byronczimmer wrote:
Stunke wrote:
Jinteki has a few cards they can use to stall the access to agendas. If someone manages to hold off even very few otherwise successful runs with zaibatsu loyalty and Red herrings, Nisei MK II and a Cell portal I think you can drain bit resources quite efficiently while the runner bangs away at some of the data forts.


Zaibatsu Loyalty will not prevent an Agenda theft, it will only prevent an exposure (which currently only happen due to Lamuria Codebreaker (criminal) or Infiltration(generic)).


Yeah just rechecked that. I also just realized that it's not an upgrade, it's an asset! Had it been an upgrade it would have been a real nice card still. As an asset it just takes space and does nothing in particular. Maybe later on if detection becomes rampant but now it's definitely not worth it.

The more I look at it... the more I think HB might actually be in a good position.
Biotic labour can score an agenda in a single turn if you have the dough!
agg. secretary is a NASTY ambush!
Adonis campaign is a good source of bits and has an OK thrash cost. With Red herrings, closed accounts and Data Raven I think HB might actually be able to hit the runner on the economy.
There are many places where you can hit the runner on his programs, which REALLY hurt.
There are a LOT of subroutines to go through unless you want to spend those click to get through and I honestly don't think you will.

...

Man I can't wait for this to come out fo' real!
 
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Gary Bergeron
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malhaku wrote:
We seem to all be having fun speculating. Let's do it some more!!!

Poll
In tomorrow's (Sat 8/17) Icebreaker tourney at GenCon, the winner will have used what combination of factions?
Anarch & Hass-Bioroid
Anarch & Jinteki
Anarch & NBN
Anarch & Weyland Consortium
Criminal & Hass-Bioroid
Criminal & Jinteki
Criminal & NBN
Criminal & Weyland Consortium
Shaper & Hass-Bioroid
Shaper & Jinteki
Shaper & NBN
Shaper & Weyland Consortium
      125 answers
Poll created by malhaku


**Note: Obviously other factions can be influenced into the deck, this is primarily focused on the identity of the deck.



Interesting poll, Jeremy, thanks!
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Enon Sci
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Stunke wrote:


The more I look at it... the more I think HB might actually be in a good position.


Yes, I'm leaning that way myself. I think, after people get past the initial learning curves and adopt to the new feel of the game, we'll see the pros leaning more towards Bioroid and the Criminals. Both seem like they demand proficiency to play, or even to really see their benefits. Without real play exposure this becomes difficult to see (i.e. to really appreciating how valuable clicks are or to get a realistic feel of the economy, and the boons offered by the Criminal's cred engines).

I doubt anybody will be playing pure factions, and I couldn't guess what the secondary factors would eventually be, but Bioroid especially has some nice tricks up their sleeves. Remember, while they're stealing clicks from the Runners (which, honestly, is like intentionally setting off a "lose one click" subroutine, which all of us would see as nasty), they're bolstering their click base.
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Noah D

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I actually voted HB Criminal, completely agree with you. I don't get why people are giving Criminal such a hard rap tbh. Credits are power. A runner who gains credits while running is a scary thing.

HB just has a ton of really good cards, and I think their ice is super solid. Splash some Precogs and their agenda gets teeth. +actions for fast advance, good ice, awesome bit generator, traps... what's not to like?

I also think the very fact that people appear to be undervaluing both these factions will give them an extra edge of unpredictability.

Weyland is the weakest faction to me just from reading cards. I can see decks that are going for a Weyland-flatline strategy pulling cards from the faction, but ultimately finding they are better served by choosing a different identity (NBN or Jinteki) as parent corp.
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Sebastian Barth
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malhaku wrote:
We seem to all be having fun speculating. Let's do it some more!!!

Poll
In tomorrow's (Sat 8/17) Icebreaker tourney at GenCon, the winner will have used what combination of factions?
Anarch & Hass-Bioroid
Anarch & Jinteki
Anarch & NBN
Anarch & Weyland Consortium
Criminal & Hass-Bioroid
Criminal & Jinteki
Criminal & NBN
Criminal & Weyland Consortium
Shaper & Hass-Bioroid
Shaper & Jinteki
Shaper & NBN
Shaper & Weyland Consortium
      125 answers
Poll created by malhaku


**Note: Obviously other factions can be influenced into the deck, this is primarily focused on the identity of the deck.


Criminal + HB players unite! :)
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Jeremy Owens
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sirprim wrote:
Criminal + HB players unite!


The guy who put the poll up (me) voted that way.
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Sebastian Barth
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malhaku wrote:
sirprim wrote:
Criminal + HB players unite! :)


The guy who put the poll up (me) voted that way. ;)

Wow, that means 5 out of 7 have shown their faces so far ^^
 
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Hugo L
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To bring a closure to this poll, the actual winning combo was "Shaper & Jinteki". Which is also the most voted poll answer (and mine incidently).
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Sebastian Barth
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byronczimmer wrote:
From the first 79 responses:



Weyland and HB are getting no love.
Criminal faction is not anticipated to get a lot of play.

All other factions are well represented in the anticipated meta.

I kind of feel bad, necroing this thread. But it gives me hope that the metagame might be harder to predict/calculate than one might think.
 
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