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Subject: Any updates from Gencon? rss

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Paul Paella
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Rumor was they might have a preview copy at Gencon.
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Ian Noble
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Here's a shot of the inside of the prototype box from @thedicetower (rotated so you can read the tiles):

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JT Call
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Is that a new race in the bottom right corner? zombie

I like it. Probably the coolest looking one so far.
 
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Ian Noble
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talusproteus wrote:
Is that a new race in the bottom right corner?


Looks like it. There are a number of interesting tiles in this shot:

What is the triangular piece on the left side, with the flame and 2VP?
What's the new tile on the top right corner?
New center icon on the 2 hexes.

 
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ianoble wrote:
talusproteus wrote:
Is that a new race in the bottom right corner?


Looks like it. There are a number of interesting tiles in this shot:

What is the triangular piece on the left side, with the flame and 2VP?
What's the new tile on the top right corner?
New center icon on the 2 hexes.



Truly. I can't speak for the first two questions, but the new icon on the hexes...that's an ancient icon and a dreadnaught, right? Seems like those hexes start with Ancient dreadnaughts on them.

FYI, I don't know what the original hexes look like (my copy of Eclipse is coming in the mail this week and I'll be pre-ordering the expansion as soon as I can figure out what else to add to my coolstuffinc cart).
 
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ianoble wrote:
talusproteus wrote:
Is that a new race in the bottom right corner?


Looks like it. There are a number of interesting tiles in this shot:

What is the triangular piece on the left side, with the flame and 2VP?
What's the new tile on the top right corner?
New center icon on the 2 hexes.



Triangle flame is an Alliance marker.
New tile is a new thing you can get with a research action instead of tech.
The icon is ancient cruiser.
There are also 2 rare techs one is obviously an energy source the other triple hull had/has an energy requirement (don't remember how much but less than 3 and more than 0).

Edit Sentient Hull is obviously another rare tech (not shown but the upgrade tiles are) as is Flux Missile which is a yellow missile that adds interesting dynamics.
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Josh Jenkins
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I talked to a guy from Asmodee running the demo of the base game, and he said that they weren't showing off the prototype to the public during GenCon. cry

He told me a few things about the expansion, but I'm honestly not sure that he was even sure what he was talking about. He said that (he thought) there were three new races and new "advanced" Techs. He mentioned that at least one of them was specifically added to bring down the power level of Plasma Missiles.

Okay, certainly not the most useful information, but that's all I could get out of him. Again, his knowledge of the prototype was questionable at best. I'll try to talk with someone else and get some more (solid) info for you guys tomorrow morning!
 
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Kevin Walsh
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Sentient Hull is very interesting. I've been attempting to price it in my own mind, and it seems like in order to replicate its effects with non-rare techs you would need Improved Hull, Positron Computer and Fusion Source. However, mass use does lock you into a build, and doesn't give you initiative, unlike actually having those three techs. Last night I was thinking 9/7 for cost, but I'm leaning toward 11/8 now and 13/9 might be reasonable.

I'm curious about the Flux missiles. Given their expense, I'd assume that they have similar punch to Plasma Missiles, probably three yellow dice. From previous discussion, I'd assumed a cheaper, more limited counter to Plasma Missiles.
 
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Hman wrote:
I talked to a guy from Asmodee running the demo of the base game, and he said that they weren't showing off the prototype to the public during GenCon. cry

He told me a few things about the expansion, but I'm honestly not sure that he was even sure what he was talking about. He said that (he thought) there were three new races and new "advanced" Techs. He mentioned that at least one of them was specifically added to bring down the power level of Plasma Missiles.

Okay, certainly not the most useful information, but that's all I could get out of him. Again, his knowledge of the prototype was questionable at best. I'll try to talk with someone else and get some more (solid) info for you guys tomorrow morning!

There is plenty more info out than that if you look around...

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Mathue Faulkner
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Amaranth wrote:
Sentient Hull is very interesting. I've been attempting to price it in my own mind, and it seems like in order to replicate its effects with non-rare techs you would need Improved Hull, Positron Computer and Fusion Source. However, mass use does lock you into a build, and doesn't give you initiative, unlike actually having those three techs. Last night I was thinking 9/7 for cost, but I'm leaning toward 11/8 now and 13/9 might be reasonable.

I'm curious about the Flux missiles. Given their expense, I'd assume that they have similar punch to Plasma Missiles, probably three yellow dice. From previous discussion, I'd assumed a cheaper, more limited counter to Plasma Missiles.

I think it's very easy to overestimate Sentient Hull when you first see it, but it really limits you in the late game. The cost doesn't approach 13/9, and I don't think it needs to.

Flux missiles are a little brother to Plasma Missiles, but cost a bit more because they have some other benefits. They're also not considered the "counter" to PMs, although they definitely change the playing field...
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mfaulk80 wrote:

I think it's very easy to overestimate Sentient Hull when you first see it, but it really limits you in the late game.

Yeah, I can see that. I can imagine a ship with a lot of Sentient Hull having trouble dealing with Missiles, for instance.

mfaulk80 wrote:

Flux missiles are a little brother to Plasma Missiles, but cost a bit more because they have some other benefits. They're also not considered the "counter" to PMs, although they definitely change the playing field...

The rumour that had been going around was that they gave an Initiative bonus. Now, the thing about that was that in my experience the big determiner of Initiative was what kind of Source you had, because of the effective rule in the base game that 1 power = 1 Initiative. If Flux Missiles give you Initiative without consuming power, that's obviously a big deal. Otherwise...well having a weapon system that helps you fire first could be useful, but it depends on the quality of the weapon system.

In terms of firepower, I would consider 3 yellow dice to be a little brother, and 2 yellow dice to be a dubious proposition for a slot at all. Of course if it doesn't consume power, a 2 yellow dice missile system can be spammed more easily than say, Plasma Cannons, but given the cost of the tech, it would look ineffective compared to Plasma Missiles except for its use as a counter to Plasma Missiles.
 
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mfaulk80 wrote:
There is plenty more info out than that if you look around...


Yeah, I realized that shortly after posting.

However, they did have a prototype set up for the public to pick through today. I managed to snap a picture of almost every page of the rulebook (though I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post those here? I assume not), some of the new tiles, and the new ship pieces.

Sentient Hull is 5/5, Flux Missiles are two yellow dice and two initiative.
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Hman wrote:

Sentient Hull is 5/5, Flux Missiles are two yellow dice and two initiative.

Wow, Sentient Hull seems like a good early buy. Do Flux Missiles have a power requirement?
 
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Amaranth wrote:
Hman wrote:

Sentient Hull is 5/5, Flux Missiles are two yellow dice and two initiative.

Wow, Sentient Hull seems like a good early buy. Do Flux Missiles have a power requirement?

Hopefully Sentient Hull is not too good. If I could choose, I would've put the price at 7/7, 8/7 or 8/8. But as it costs 5/5 only Hydran can afford it on turn 1 so it may turn out to be fine (you can pass early to get it on turn 2). It's not the only tech which seems "too good" for its price like Advanced Robotics and Improved Hull.

If I remember correctly, Flux Missiles don't require any energy. They are a nice way to gain high initiative easily, but at the cost of firepower. They are a perfect counter component for those designs with 2 computers and plasma missiles only.
 
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Petri wrote:

If I remember correctly, Flux Missiles don't require any energy. They are a nice way to gain high initiative easily, but at the cost of firepower. They are a perfect counter component for those designs with 2 computers and plasma missiles only.

Hmm...the free Initiative looks like it could also help Antimatter Cannon builds, since the power intensiveness of the AC makes it hard to beat other ships on Initiative.
 
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Amaranth wrote:
Hman wrote:

Sentient Hull is 5/5, Flux Missiles are two yellow dice and two initiative.

Wow, Sentient Hull seems like a good early buy. Do Flux Missiles have a power requirement?


Nope, no energy required.

Are there any rules barring the posting of prototype rules photos? I scanned through the BGG rules and couldn't find anything specifically, but I don't want to step on any toes. Failing that, I would be more than a willing to type up a summary of everything new.
 
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Giliar Perez
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Oh man I'd love to know more. Any mods around to give an insight?
 
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Hman wrote:
Amaranth wrote:
Hman wrote:

Sentient Hull is 5/5, Flux Missiles are two yellow dice and two initiative.

Wow, Sentient Hull seems like a good early buy. Do Flux Missiles have a power requirement?


Nope, no energy required.

Are there any rules barring the posting of prototype rules photos? I scanned through the BGG rules and couldn't find anything specifically, but I don't want to step on any toes. Failing that, I would be more than a willing to type up a summary of everything new.

I have no authority whatsoever, but if they released it to the public at GenCon, why wouldn't the unlucky few who didn't make it get to see it too? :shrug:
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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If Sentient Hull is 5/5, then that is a change since the last set of rules sent out to beta testers...
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Just got home from GenCon. I'm going to hold off on posting actual pictures of the rulebook, just to be safe. I realize that it's "out in the wild" now, so to speak, but I just don't feel right posting someone else's direct rules. I'll post them up if anyone can give me direct confirmation as to whether or not this is okay. (I'll be happy to send them privately though, just PM me.) So here are the summarized rules, straight from the prototype rulebook at the Asmodee booth from GenCon.

This is not everything from the rules. I did not get a chance to look over Combat, Synchronized play, or Alliance breaking penalties.

There are undoubtedly some typos and other errors. If you have any questions, just ask!

Quick Reference Sheet
Player Pieces
New Player Races
Prototype Punchboard


Contents (Directly from the book.)
"This expansion introduces several new additions to the base game: Ancient Homeworlds and Hives, Ancient Cruisers and Dreadnoughts; Rare Technologies and Developments; Warp Portals and Alliances. There are also four new alien species to choose from - three unique ones and one identical species (The Magellan) on the flipside of the player boards.

The expansion is designed to be modular: you can use all of these additions or just some of them in any game of Eclipse, according to your play group's preferences and play style. Feel free to leave out ever just single components you don't like.

The expansion contains components for additional players, allowing up to nine players in one session. To save your table space, the box also includes a Compact Supply Board that you can use instead of the original one."


Pieces
-Ships, storage markers, summary cards, info cards, colony ship tiles, etc for 3 more players
-1x Prosperity Influence Disc
-3x Starting Sector Hex
-4x Ancient Homeworld Hex
-2x Ancient Hive Hex
-3x Warp Sector Hex
-6x Regular Sector Hex
-3x Player Board
-1x Compact Supply Board
-1x Primary Action Marker
-1x Secondary Action Marker
-10x Rare Tech Tile
-18x Extra Tech Tile
-8x Development Tile
-9x Discovery Tile
-8x Ancient Cruiser Tile
-1x Ancient Dreadnought Tile
-9x Extra Reputation Tile
-1x Direction Tile
-9x(? picture was cut off) Alliance Tile
-NOTE: There are a plethora of other tiles included that were not included in the graphic with these. (Shrines, Dev-Related Tiles, etc.)


Rare Technologies
-Rare Techs are placed in the technology bag. When you draw a Rare Tech place it off to the side, they do not count towards the number of Tech tiles that you draw. Always draw as many Regular Techs as the rules state.
-Rare Techs can be placed on any Tech Track, discounts still apply.
-You cannot acquire a Rare Tech with Ancient Tech Discovery.

-Antimatter Splitter (5/5): Allows you to split Antimatter Cannon damage among multiple ships. The die rolls have to be able to hit all ships you target.
-Neutron Absorber (5/5): Enemy Neutron Bombs don't affect you.
-Distortion Shield (7/6): Enemy missiles get -2 hit modifier.
-Cloaking Device (7/6): Opponents need 2 ships to pin 1 of yours.
-Point Defense (11/8): After opponent rolls Missile dice, you may fire your Cannons once against incoming Missiles before they hit. Each die hit destroys a Missile. Your Computers affect Point Defense, but opponents Shields do not.
-Conifold Field (5/5): Allows purchase of Conifold Field ship parts.
-Sentient Hull (5/5): Allows purchase of Sentient Hull ship parts.
-Interceptor Bay (9/7): Allows purchase of Interceptor Bay ship parts.
-Flux Missile (11/8): Allows purchase of Flux Missile ship parts.
-Zero-Point Source (15/10): Allows purchase of Zero-Point Source ship parts.


New Ship Parts

-Interceptor Bay: Each Interceptor Bay allows you to move up to 2 unpinned Interceptors into the Interceptor Bay with one ship Activation. After the Activation, 1 or more of the Interceptors may leave the bay and be moved by themselves with further ship activations. When moving Interceptors in the bay, they do not affect pinning. Interceptors are unloaded at the end of the Move action. Interceptors cannot have Interceptor bays. (Inter-ception! )
-Conifold Field: 3 Hull costing 2 Energy.
-Sentient Hull: +1 Computer and 1 Hull.
-Flux Missle: 2 Ion Missiles and 2 Initiative.
-Zero-Point Source: 12 Energy.


Developments
-Score points and boost production.
-Setup: Place random Development Tiles next to supply board. (Number of tiles used is number of players + 1.)
-Acquired with Research Action and placed beside player board.
-Can cost Resources other than Science.

-Ancient Monument (13 Money): 3 Victory Points at end of game.
-Artifact Link (7 Science & 7 Materials): 1 Victory Point per Artifact at end of game.
-Diplomatic Fleet (6 Materials): You may place one Ambassador or Reputation Tile on top of this tile.
-Mining Colony (5 Money & 5 Science): Take 12 Materials.
-Research Station (5 Money & 5 Materials): Take 12 Science.
-Trade Fleet (5 Science & 5 Materials): Take 12 Money.
-Shellworld (20 Materials): Place on a hex you control. Has a Science population square and is with 5 Victory Points.
-Warp Portal (8 Materials): Place Warp Portal tile on a hex you control. Connects to all other Warp Portals and is worth 1 Victory Point.


Ancient Homeworlds
-Can be used to fill empty Starting Sectors in games with less than 6 players.
-Guarded by Ancient Cruiser.
-When you destroy an Ancient Cruiser, take the tile and keep it face down next to your Player Board. Each destroyed Cruiser is worth 1 Victory Point.
-Destroying an Ancient Cruiser allows you to draw two Reputation Tiles.
-Descendants of Draco MUST battle Ancient Cruisers on Ancient Homeworld hexes. Decendants of Draco do NOT recieve Victory Points at the end of the game for destroyed Ancient Cruisers.

-Place an Ancient Dreadnought in the Galactic Center, random side up, instead of the GCDS.
-When you destroy an Ancient Dreadnought, take the tile and keep it face down next to your Player Board. Each destroyed Dreadnought is worth 1 Victory Point.
-(There is another special rule for Decendants of Draco and the Ancient Dreadnoughts, but the bottom of the image is cut off. Sorry!)

-Ancient Cruisers and Dreadnoughts can have new special abilities on their tiles.
-Regeneration: After each round, remove 1 Damage Cube.
-Distortion Shield: Player missiles get -2 hit modifier.
-Point Defense: After Player rolls Missile dice, Ancients may fire their Cannons once against incoming Missiles before they hit. Each die hit destroys a Missile. Their Computers affect Point Defense, but Players Shields do not.


Ancient Hives
- 2 Ancient Hive hexes, one in the Middle (II) Sector and one in the Outer (III) Sector. Each hex contains 3 Ancient Ships (from the base game) that may move to other hexes.
-Shuffle Hives into hex piles during setup.
-Hive hexes have a Wormhole on each side. These Wormholes are marked with die results, 1 to 6.
-During each Cleanup Phase, roll a die for each Hive. If there is an explored hex connected to the side of the Hive indicated by the die roll result, move 1 Ancient Ship onto that hex.
-Ancient Ships have Wormhole Generators.
-Ancient Ships also have Neutron Bombs and will destroy population at the end of battle. If player has Neutron Absorber Technology, the Ancients try to destroy Population Cubes in this order: Money->Science->Materials.
-If the Decendants of Dracon draw a Hive hex with the Explore action, they must discard it.
-Decendants of Draco may move to Hive hexes and place an Influence Disc, but may not collect a Discovery Tile. (Same as base game.)
-If Hive ships move into a tile containing Decendants of Dracos' Ships or Influence Discs, a battle will NOT take place.
-If a Hive ship ends up on an Ancient Homeworld, and then the Decendants of Draco move into that Homeworld, they will not have to battle the Hive ships, only the Ancient Cruiser.
-Hive ships never attack Decendants of Draco population cubes.
-Surviving Hive ships give Decendants of Draco Victory Points at the end of the game.


Alliances
-Allied players can move into each others' hexes and battle together against enemies.
-At game end, allied players share Victory Points and win or lose together.
-Alliances are not avaliable in 2 and 3 player games.
-In 4 and 5 player games only 2 players may belong to the same Alliance.

-Two players with Diplomatic relations may agree to found an Alliance at any time during either player's Action Phase. They both take an Alliance Tile and place it face up next to their player boards.
-In a 6+ player game, a third player may join an Alliance if he has Diplomatic Relations with either of its founding members. A third player may only join if both founding members agree.
-You may only join 1 Alliance.

-Players in the same Alliance may not attack eachother.
-They are able to move into and through Allied Players' hexes without being pinned. But they do affect the number of opponents being pinned.
-Allied players fight together, if in the same hex during combat.
-If one ally is the defender, both are considered defenders and win Initiative ties.
-In Ancients have multiple similar targets (eg., a die roll allows them to destroy a Dreadnought from 2 different players), they attack the player who entered the hex last.
-Allied players draw Reputation tiles for the battle and for ships they personally destroyed, in the order they entered the hex.
-You may show Reputation Tiles to your allies, but you do not have to.
-The Allied players who enters a hex first has priority on placing an Influence Disc. If they do not wish to, the other ally may do so.


Alien Species

-Wardens/Sentinels/Keepers of Magellan:
-Recieve a free Discovery Tile when you place a Technology on the fourth space of any Technology Track. You only recieve this bonus once. If the Discovery tile allows you to place something in a hex, it is placed in your Starting Sector. If you do not control your Starting Sector, you must take the 2 Victory Points.
-Movement: 2 ships, OR 1 ship twice.
-Influence: May flip one Colony Ship face-up when using Influence Action.
-At any time, may flip unused Colony Ships to recieve one free Reource per Colony Ship.
- +1 Victory Point at the end of the game for each Discovery Tile that you discarded or used as a Ship Part.
-Reputation Track: 4 Reputation/Diplomacy.
-Initial Tech: Fusion Source.
-Trade Rate: 3 : 1.
-Starting Storage: 2 Money, 2 Science, 3 Material.
-Starting Sectors: 233, 235, 237.

The Exiles:
-Movement: 2 ships.
- +1 Victory Point for each Orbital with one of your cubes on it at the end of the game.
-Reputation Track: 4 Reputation/Diplomacy.
-Free Orbital in Starting hex.
-Different ship blueprints; no Starbase.
-Orbitals containing your cube are considered your Ships in all aspects. They have their own blueprints, but are not allowed to have Drives. When an Orbital is destroyed in battle, place your cube into the graveyard but never remove the Orbital. A destroyed Orbital allows your opponents to draw 1 Reputation Tile.
-Initial Tech: Cloaking Device, Orbital.
-Trade Rate: 3 : 1.
-Starting Storage: 2 Money, 3 Science, 4 Material.
-Starting Sector: 234.

Rho Indi Syndicate:
-Start with 2 Interceptors.
-Movement: 4 ships.
-Colony Ships: 2.
-Ambassadors: 2.
-Not affected by Traitor penalty at end of game.
-You recieve Money when you destroy ships. After drawing Reputation tiles, take 1 Money less than the number of tiles you drew. (eg., draw 4 tiles, gain 3 money.)
-Reputation Track: 2 Reputation/Diplomacy, 3 Reputation.
-Trade Rate: 3 Money : 2 Science/Material.
-Trade Rate (Any other Trade): 3 : 1.
-Starting Storage: 2 Money, 3 Science, 3 Material.
-Starting Sector: 236.

Enlightened of Lyra:
-May construct Shrines. During Upkeep, you may construct 1 Shrine on any hex you control. Shrines cost Resources, indicated on Shrine Tiles. Shrines may only be placed on a planet of the same color. Each planet may only have 1 Shrine, but each hex may hold several shrines. Any color Shrine may be placed on a Grey/White planet. If you build all 3 Shrines of the same cost, you recieve the related Shrine Bonus Tile. These tiles give you special abilities.
-Shrines of Freedom: Wormhole Generator Tech.
-Shrines of Prosperity: Extra Influence Disc. (Purple Prosperity Influence disc.)
-Shrines of Enlightenment: 3 Victory Points at the end of the game.
-In combat, may flip an unused Colony Ship to reroll one of your own dice. May do this until you run out of Colony Ships to flip.
-Movement: 2 ships.
- +1 Victory Point for each Shrine controlled at the end of the game.
-Reputation Track: 4 Reputation/Diplomacy.
-Initial Tech: Distortion Shield.
-Trade Rate: 3 : 1.
-Starting Sotrage: 2 Money, 3 Science, 3 Material.
-Starting Sector: 238.
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Mathue Faulkner
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mfaulk80 wrote:
If Sentient Hull is 5/5, then that is a change since the last set of rules sent out to beta testers...

Just to show I'm not crazy (since Hman posted this info, I don't think it hurts to post this image):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kybztpxhm1hbdce/SentientHull.png
 
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I think its a great change. For 7/6, I definitely found it underused. Sentient hull was just not useful late game. I think it'll add much more dynamic to early researching and provide some good decisions based on the availability of improved hull and computers if sentient hull is drawn early.
 
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mfaulk80 wrote:
mfaulk80 wrote:
If Sentient Hull is 5/5, then that is a change since the last set of rules sent out to beta testers...

Just to show I'm not crazy (since Hman posted this info, I don't think it hurts to post this image):

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kybztpxhm1hbdce/SentientHull.png


Interesting. I'm sure it will probably change again before it's all said and done!

http://i45.tinypic.com/5e8qdc.jpg

Also, just added the Developments section to my previous post.
 
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5/5 is final.
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18 extra tech tiles, eh? Assuming that these are for new non-rare technologies, none of them are blanks and each technology track is getting the same number of extra techs, I can't see that it means anything other than that each tech track is getting two new extra expensive technologies in the 12-16 tech range.

Interceptor Bay looks great for Mechanema. Neutron Absorber could be swingy in two player.

The Developments all look interesting enough, although buying Shellworld seems like it requires a lot of bravery.

Also, your part list doesn't mention ship parts.
 
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