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Subject: GenCon Pick Up? Not for me! rss

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Jeremy Mueller
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Just a heads up for everyone who opted for GenCon pick up. If you don't have it in your hands already, you aren't getting it. It seems they didn't set any aside for pick up. They just had their stock on hand and if you picked up before they sold out you would get one.

So, some random persons $20.00 was worth more to them than the $50.00 pledge I made in May. I mean, I only helped pay for the print run, so what do they care?
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Typhoons, Shipping, and Grumpiness
Update #40 · Aug. 09, 2012 · 57 comments
Hello, all. Today's update was supposed to be about the awesome box for the game, and about totally sweet t-shirts. Tomorrow, I will write that post. However, due to the news we received yesterday, today's post is about Bad Things.

Have you heard about all the typhoons? There are typhoons. Notably around Japan, but those same typhoons have significantly impacted the Chinese harbors. Yesterday, we learned that the boat with all of our games . . . is still in China.

This is entirely unacceptable. The games have been entirely out of our hands since the very beginning of June, and the printer did a great job of getting everything done and to the shipping in time to be here. I realize that this is no one's fault, what with terrible weather and all, but the fact that we just learned about this now - a week before Gen Con... well, we're Greater Than Grumpy about it.

So, wonderful backers, please accept our most sincere apologies. The games are shipping out today or tomorrow, which means they'll be here in a month. Your games will be to you by the end of September. But we promised you August. You are well within your rights to be upset about this. We certainly are.

As for Gen Con, we are paying several thousand dollars to have 250 of Enhanced Edition and 250 Infernal Relics and the bulk of the promos air-shipped to Gen Con. We are already signed up, we have our booth all planned out, and have sunk entirely too much money into Gen Con to not go at this point, so if possible, please do come by or send someone to pick up your games. I doubt we will have anything left by the end of Gen Con, but we shall see.

Again, please accept our apologies. We really wanted this game to be in everyone's hands by now and did everything we could to facilitate this. We hate the fact that we will be at Gen Con with games before all of our backers have their games, but there's nothing we can do about that at this point.

Thank you for your patience and understanding. We're doing everything we can to make this right.
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Nushura
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I am sorry, but I beg to differ.

I don't find so terrible that your 50$ have no priority on some random guy's 40$ (if you paid 50 you are getting the second edition print, not the expansion. right?). It is indeed true that you paid 10$ more (originally thought as a way to cover shipping fees). I wonder what could they do to thank backers...hmm, maybe they could give us some promotional villain? or no, make them add some print runs and a digital comic as well. Isn't it enough? Well, then add in some promo heroes and oversized villain cards. How does that sound? In all, I believe you are getting more than your money's worth with the kickstarter project, even if it means there will be some delay.

Further note that it is not that you devoted your life into kickstarting their project...you just lent them 50$ for 4-5 months. Do you think kickstarting was such an effort?

Finally, as the guy above me said, the delay was unexpected. Because of this, they are actually selling games at a loss at GenCon (air shipping from china will probably have costed them more than 40$ per copy). I personally do not think that "I paid first" is a reason for them to hold onto several copies just in case backers will feel outraged.
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Jeremy Mueller
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JBMoby wrote:
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As for Gen Con, we are paying several thousand dollars to have 250 of Enhanced Edition and 250 Infernal Relics and the bulk of the promos air-shipped to Gen Con. We are already signed up, we have our booth all planned out, and have sunk entirely too much money into Gen Con to not go at this point, so if possible, please do come by or send someone to pick up your games. I doubt we will have anything left by the end of Gen Con, but we shall see.


I notified them before hand that I would be picking up at GenCon. They confirmed that. We agreed to a mutually beneficial option, where I would save them shipping and get my game early. They opted to not fulfill that agreement. Pretty simple.
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Matt Shinners
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Century wrote:
JBMoby wrote:
Quote:
As for Gen Con, we are paying several thousand dollars to have 250 of Enhanced Edition and 250 Infernal Relics and the bulk of the promos air-shipped to Gen Con. We are already signed up, we have our booth all planned out, and have sunk entirely too much money into Gen Con to not go at this point, so if possible, please do come by or send someone to pick up your games. I doubt we will have anything left by the end of Gen Con, but we shall see.


I notified them before hand that I would be picking up at GenCon. They confirmed that. We agreed to a mutually beneficial option, where I would save them shipping and get my game early. They opted to not fulfill that agreement. Pretty simple.


Yep - I'd be with Nushura if they hadn't sent out that update which can certainly be construed as a promise to the backers. They either 1) saw a chance to recoup some of their money, or 2) just didn't think about the backers (or 3) both of the above). Either way, they messed up.
 
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Jeremy Mueller
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Nushura wrote:
I am sorry, but I beg to differ.

I don't find so terrible that your 50$ have no priority on some random guy's 40$ (if you paid 50 you are getting the second edition print, not the expansion. right?).


I paid for the expansion and some promos from the first two games.

It's not just that they sold the game at GenCon and someone else got it before I did. It's that they offered GenCon pickup, which I got a confirmation from them on, and then they chose not to fulfill it so they could sell the game.
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Do you guys really thin Century is being unreasonable? If I understand his post correctly, Greater Than Games is not giving priority to kickstarter backers that are attending Gen Con, and are instead choosing to sell the games they have on hand.

I understand why they aren't mailing out these games to everyone on the kickstarter list, but if a kickstarter backer is attending Gen Con, it seems to me that they should get the game over other people.
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Jeremy Mueller
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otherguy2k wrote:
Do you guys really thin Century is being unreasonable? If I understand his post correctly, Greater Than Games is not giving priority to kickstarter backers that are attending Gen Con, and are instead choosing to sell the games they have on hand.

I understand why they aren't mailing out these games to everyone on the kickstarter list, but if a kickstarter backer is attending Gen Con, it seems to me that they should get the game over other people.


I'm going to agree and disagree here.

If they had said that they weren't going to be able to do GenCon pickup, I wouldn't have cared. I understand that GenCon is an expensive show and they need to have new stuff to sell to cover their costs. All good, wouldn't have said a thing.

However, they told me I could send someone to get it. They went to the booth on Friday and it seems that they hadn't set any aside for the backers, they just sold out. That's what I have a problem with.
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Nushura
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Century wrote:

I paid for the expansion and some promos from the first two games.


More in my favour. You have paid 100 usd I guess? And you are comparing it to some random guy's 90 usd, right? In anycase, the important issue toyou seems to be the "breaking the deal" part.

I. the update I can understand something of the form "I am sorry we could not ship before gencon. If you happen to be there, please come visit us. We have a list of backers, so you can come and pick your game."

They never say anthing like "we reserve games for backers", let alone make promises or sign contracts like you guys are implying. There are many things you can complain on GTG, but I have to say at customer service is not one of them.
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Brandon M
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Century wrote:
JBMoby wrote:
Quote:
As for Gen Con, we are paying several thousand dollars to have 250 of Enhanced Edition and 250 Infernal Relics and the bulk of the promos air-shipped to Gen Con. We are already signed up, we have our booth all planned out, and have sunk entirely too much money into Gen Con to not go at this point, so if possible, please do come by or send someone to pick up your games. I doubt we will have anything left by the end of Gen Con, but we shall see.


I notified them before hand that I would be picking up at GenCon. They confirmed that. We agreed to a mutually beneficial option, where I would save them shipping and get my game early. They opted to not fulfill that agreement. Pretty simple.


I do not have your private correspondence, so I cannot comment on that, but all of the posts regarding GenCon pick have been simply "we will have a list of backers, so pick up won't be an issue". They have never publicly said they would hold/reserve games.

The next sentence after the one you chose to bold (I have now bolded it) states there is a very good chance of things selling out. Which they did.

If in your communications, they stated a copy would be held for you, then you are by all means in the right to complain. I do not feel any of the public statements qualify as any sort of guarantee, an offered guarantee, or provide differentiation between treatment of backers and attendees outside of backers being give their rewards for free.
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SnipedintheHead
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I still think it's a bit uncool that they sold copies when people were expecting pickup. Yes, they did not flat out state that they would reserve copies for those who ordered, but they made the implication. Statements like "Stop by and see us to get your copy" or "Arrange for pickup at Gencon" imply that if you are there, and you ordered from Kickstarter, you could get your copy.

It sucks everything that happened with the shipments, and I feel bad for what happened with them. But given how great of a job G2G has done with keeping us backers in the loop, how hard would it be to just add in the line "We are getting rid of these on a first-come first-served basis. If you are schedule for pickup, get there early"?

Here's to waiting another month for the game *sigh*
 
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Hey, Century. I'm sorry to hear your story; that is a bummer, however matters may have been stated or interpreted. It also goes against all the prior history of going above and beyond to take care of their customers that >G is known for and to which you have alluded. Have you contacted them since to let them know your disappointment? If you had spoken with them before GenCon to arrange a pickup as you say and it wasn't there for you, I would think that if you contacted them now they would try to offer something (a promo or something) to you after the fact to make up for the disconnect. I've found these guys to be very approachable and responsive to their gamer customers.
 
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Jeremy Mueller
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Nushura wrote:
Century wrote:

I paid for the expansion and some promos from the first two games.


More in my favour. You have paid 100 usd I guess? And you are comparing it to some random guy's 90 usd, right?


No, I paid $50.00.

Kickstarter wrote:
Pledge $45 or more
68 Backers Limited (7 of 75 left)
ADDITIONAL ALLIES - A copy of Infernal Relics and *both* of the previous promo cards (Young Legacy and Rook City Wraith)


I also bought a mini-expansion. The customer at the con got one of the promos for free, that I also had to pay for. So... they double screwed me there.

In a prior update they had mentioned contacting them if you had a special circumstance. I did, I wasn't going to be there. I was never told, make sure you come quick because we plan on selling all of our games.



 
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Brother Jim wrote:
Hey, Century. I'm sorry to hear your story; that is a bummer, however matters may have been stated or interpreted. It also goes against all the prior history of going above and beyond to take care of their customers that >G is known for and to which you have alluded. Have you contacted them since to let them know your disappointment? If you had spoken with them before GenCon to arrange a pickup as you say and it wasn't there for you, I would think that if you contacted them now they would try to offer something (a promo or something) to you after the fact to make up for the disconnect. I've found these guys to be very approachable and responsive to their gamer customers.


I have contacted them. I also had another issue with my first expansion, it had two damaged cards. After three shipments they fixed it after sending the wrong card the first time, and the second card was unprotected and damaged in shipping.
 
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Century wrote:
I have contacted them.

...and no response yet? ...or a "non-response" response?

P.S. Yikes, sorry to hear about the expansion card issue!
 
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Century wrote:

In a prior update they had mentioned contacting them if you had a special circumstance. I did, I wasn't going to be there. I was never told, make sure you come quick because we plan on selling all of our games.


This. I am in the same boat, having arranged to have someone pick the game up for me. Except that he arrived on Friday...and everything was sold out by Thursday. The fact is, that by printing one simple sentence "Pickups are not guaranteed, so get there early" could have seriously downplayed the expectations for this con.
 
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I think it does reflect poorly on >G - as a backer you should receive higher priority for having made the early, and thereby riskier, investment. It's sad to hear them disregard the backer in a scenario like this.
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I support OP. He contacted them and had an agreement. No reason they didn't reserve a copy for him.
 
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Matt Shinners
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sstrunks5555 wrote:
as a backer you should receive higher priority for having made the early, and thereby riskier, investment.


This is what's worrying me. >G seem like great guys who are working hard to release a quality product.

However, this is twice that they've seemingly left the early supporters behind (the first time when they decided to release an Enhanced Edition very shortly after the initial edition). While they always try to make it right, it's worrying to me that they seem to continually forget about supporting their early supporters until after one of those supporters points out the issue to them.
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>G didn't decide to leave supporters behind. The mass shipment of games was meant to arrive for GenCon. They didn't. That seems to be a common theme all over the industry right now.

Because >G was going to be at GenCon, they airshipped in some copies in order to have something there. Originally, they offered GenCon pickup. Once they games weren't going to arrive in mass, it was readily apparent to anyone with a brain that the 250 copies were going to go fast.

I had arranged to have someone pick up my KS package at GenCon, but I decided to not have them do so on Thursday so >G would have product for the show. >G suggested I have my friend pick up on Sunday, in case some where left. I knew that wouldn't happen.

I'm fine with it. Glad to see this small company have some success, and I'll get my KS package next month.
 
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MattShinners wrote:
sstrunks5555 wrote:
as a backer you should receive higher priority for having made the early, and thereby riskier, investment.


This is what's worrying me. >G seem like great guys who are working hard to release a quality product.

However, this is twice that they've seemingly left the early supporters behind (the first time when they decided to release an Enhanced Edition very shortly after the initial edition). While they always try to make it right, it's worrying to me that they seem to continually forget about supporting their early supporters until after one of those supporters points out the issue to them.


Hopefully between this thread and messages sent out guys like the OP can get restitution.
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weirdboy_1 wrote:
Hopefully between this thread and messages sent out guys like the OP can get restitution.

That's why I am curious about >G's response after the OP contacted them after the fact. I have to believe they would offer something to make up for not having a game when a pickup had been arranged. Mistakes and errors in judgment happen and can be justifiably frustrating; for me it's how the company responds to those issues in the end that means most to me. Was there a response or a "non-response" response?
 
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Brother Jim wrote:
weirdboy_1 wrote:
Hopefully between this thread and messages sent out guys like the OP can get restitution.

That's why I am curious about >G's response after the OP contacted them after the fact. I have to believe they would offer something to make up for not having a game when a pickup had been arranged. Mistakes and errors in judgment happen and can be justifiably frustrating; for me it's how the company responds to those issues in the end that means most to me. Was there a response or a "non-response" response?


If the OP's experience is anything like mine, then he hasn't received a response back yet. I imagine that it won't be until after the con that they start making responses about these things. Sometimes it takes them some time to respond back, but they are usually good about responding.
 
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Brother Jim wrote:
weirdboy_1 wrote:
Hopefully between this thread and messages sent out guys like the OP can get restitution.

That's why I am curious about >G's response after the OP contacted them after the fact. I have to believe they would offer something to make up for not having a game when a pickup had been arranged. Mistakes and errors in judgment happen and can be justifiably frustrating; for me it's how the company responds to those issues in the end that means most to me. Was there a response or a "non-response" response?


No response yet, but that's to be expected because they all are at GenCon.
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As someone who may or may not be in the same situation as the OP (I have a friend at Gencon who said he'd pick it up for me), I'm not sure what kind of restitution would be in order. We're getting the same deal we signed up for originally, barring a delay in shipping which was beyond the control of Greaterthangames.
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