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Call of Cthulhu: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Lacking Interaction rss

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Mark
Denmark
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I recently picked up this game but somethings seems way off about my understanding of the rules.

First off, each game is over in a blink of an eye because characters keep winning struggles unopposed. 3 points every time makes for a very short game. Last game we played I committed 3 characters, 1 to each story, and got 3 points for each which won me the game. The game lasted about 8 turns and took us 10-15 minutes. I assume we're doing something completely wrong, yet we've studied the rulebook intensely and nothing appears amiss.

Where is the player interaction when characters are exhausted when you commit them during your turn leaving nothing to challenge your opponent with during his turn? Unless large numbers of characters are in play I don't see how you can stop your opponent from taking 2-3 points on at least 1 story every turn.

What am I missing?



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Mark
Denmark
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If for my first turn I draw a character that costs 1 resource then I might as well commit it right away as it is unlikely that my opponent can counter it so early in the game. I get 3 points and a huge head start.
To me it seems like the player who is first able to play a character is most likely the game winner.

Am I still missing the point?
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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A basic rule perhaps:

"Important Exception: During the very first turn of the game, the
starting player may only draw one card during his draw phase and
must skip his entire story phase. This is known as the “first player
penalty” and only applies to the starting player on the very first
turn of the game." (p. 8)
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Tomas Daniel
Czech Republic
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Heh we play CoC very often and our games last about 45mins.. if you and your opponent will every turn commit each of your characters so it's not a game. Its only mechanic play and booring ;-) And every time will win player with a cheaper characters, so other one must use some tactics and abilities to change it..

Have fun ;-)
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Tomas Daniel
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jaikyro wrote:
If for my first turn I draw a character that costs 1 resource then I might as well commit it right away as it is unlikely that my opponent can counter it so early in the game. I get 3 points and a huge head start.
To me it seems like the player who is first able to play a character is most likely the game winner.

Am I still missing the point?


First player draw one card and skip story face ;-)
 
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Mark
Denmark
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We did play with the starting player disadvantage rule.

I suppose we just have to keep playing and figure out more strategies.

Thx anyways
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Javier Martin
United Kingdom
Maidenhead
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jaikyro wrote:
We did play with the starting player disadvantage rule.

I suppose we just have to keep playing and figure out more strategies.

Thx anyways


Just in case it helps, are you using characters with arcane (book) icons? Those can ready themselves or other characters in the story and can therefore provide you with some defense in your opponent's turn.
 
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Shawn Garbett
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jaikyro wrote:
We did play with the starting player disadvantage rule.

I suppose we just have to keep playing and figure out more strategies.

Thx anyways


Yep. It's all about what you hold back and when. I've had several games were someone quickly gets 2 story cards, then from the edge of defeat the other player comes back and wins 3 story cards, using some combo that surprises me.

It's not that deep of a game, but the local turn decision to hold back or not can be nail biting.

As someone else pointed out, if you just commit everything, everytime, it's not much of a game. In fact, why not just roll two dice and highest wins?

Now for the sneaky part. Don't tell the other player you've figured out a deeper strategy, of holding back strategically. Just use it and tell them afterward why you won...
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Agent 57
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You guys need to look for the deeper strategies and use of tactics. If you are just playing with a single core set the vast majority of the cards which would force a disruption of this tactic is missing, but there are plenty of strategies that can be employed within the core set that will let you beat your opponent if they stick to this plan.

Remember the only way to get three success tokens is when you win investigation, skill, and unopposed. Not every faction has investigation icons. If you find yourself lacking them you should be holding back your characters with the terror and/or combat icons on your turn to force your opponents characters to go insane or wound and destroy them. If you have Arcane icons then you can ready 1 character at the story at which you won that struggle.

The game allows for MUCH more interaction, it is just that you two are not partaking in it. Hopefully with all of these suggestions you'll discover the layers of complexity this game provides.
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Carthoris Pyramidos
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CyberGarp wrote:
Don't tell the other player you've figured out a deeper strategy, of holding back strategically. Just use it and tell them afterward why you won...

I did this last night in my first completed game, and I didn't have to tell him how I beat him!

I was playing Syndicate-Hastur against his Miskatonic-Shub. He went first and resourced more aggressively, and it seemed like no matter what I did -- focused assaults, dividing my characters to go for multiple stories, holding back some while committing some -- he kept one step ahead of me in finishing stories. Finally, there was a turn where I looked at the table and said to myself, "Anything I do here just gives him an opportunity to get his third story." So I passed my story phase entirely. He then went all-in with his whole set of characters to take that third story, allowing me to respond in kind, and thwart him. After that, I drew and refreshed, his whole team was still exhausted, and I waltzed through two stories in a single turn for the win.

Once you get about midway through the draw decks, the game starts to become more chess-like. Even though new cards can change the dynamic, it starts to behave like a complex perfect information game, because of the relative importance of the cards already in play.

I wasn't sure I'd like this game (despite loving the theme and liking the graphic design), but so far I'm satisfied.
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Ashberg I
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At first my friend and I experienced the same issue: over-committing characters; having none to defend; it felt... weird.

Once we figured out just because you CAN commit, doesn't mean you should; things seemed to go along smoothly...

UNTIL games were over in about 40 minutes. It still didn't feel right. The game had the makings of being epicly strategic, beyond chess, beyond anything else I'd ever known... but we were still left feeling unsettled and unsatisfied.

Last game night, we had bought the two deluxe expansions and one asylum pack, and added them to the collection. We also decided to play to FIVE story cards *gasp, shock, horror*. So with all the new cards, new text to learn and interpret, we were suitably happy with the game lasting for about three hours (inclusive of adult time, glass of wine and such).

One thing we didn't quite understand - why each expansion had MULTIPLES! Seemed wrong... until we Googled and found that most people take time to BUILD their decks. Whereas we just chose two factions each, no duplicates, and slugged it out.
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David Boeren
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A big part of the learning curve for the game is getting a good sense of when to commit and when to hold back, especially in light of not knowing what Events your opponent may have in hand that can change the situation from what it appears to be.

I've got a local friend who's still fairly new to the game, and in the beginning he had a problem with over-committing, and letting me run unopposed on my turn. Now he's doing a lot better and thinking more about leaving some defenders but the temptation is still there

Once both players understand how to play the game right, it's a really tense game with tons of depth to it.

A nice medium between picking random cards and building decks is trying out posted decks from other players (if you have the cards for them). It usually takes a while to fully understand how the deck is intended to work and figure out all the little nuances since you don't know why it was originally designed that way.
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