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Subject: Would using tokens for goods unbalance the game? rss

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Scott Wheelock
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Rather than using cards to represent goods on planets, I wanted to use tokens (little wooden blocks in four colours, perhaps). This would mean that every card was available to be drawn, though, since none would be used a goods (and then discarded).

Would this 'break' the game, or make it less strategic?
 
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Guido Gloor
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It would make it more certain which cards can get into the players hands and which can't, and thus would probably make the strategy slightly more foreseeable and thus more boring.

The easy way out is that whenever you place a token as a good, you discard the topmost card from the deck as well.
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Eric Brosius
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My favorite 18xx game for six players is two games of 1846 with three players each.
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The designer intentionally did it the way he did so that, on your second time through the deck, there are still cards that no one has seen yet. This means that (for example) even if you know your opponent(s) will always keep Terraforming Guild if they draw it, it's still possible to draw Terraforming Guild because it may have been used as a good. This keeps the possibility space more wide open.

Interestingly, the degree to which this effect operates is greater in a game with a lot of Produce/Consume engines than in one with few of them.
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Wally Jones
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Simple answer = yes it would
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Iron James Rackham
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A different simple answer = No, it wouldn't.
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Mark McEvoy
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swheelock wrote:
Rather than using cards to represent goods on planets, I wanted to use tokens (little wooden blocks in four colours, perhaps). This would mean that every card was available to be drawn, though, since none would be used a goods (and then discarded).

Would this 'break' the game, or make it less strategic?


If you wanted to preserve the 'card uncertainty' element of the game, you could place a good token *and* mill a card from the draw deck to the discard pile every time a good is produced. This would still be slightly different from the original game mechanically (such cards could get included in a reshuffle when they would normally have still been on-a-world and excluded from a reshuffle) but at that point it is a minimal impact on game balance.
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Scott Wheelock
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These are all things that I suspected. I like the idea of certain cards getting passed over, so I won't be going with this.

Even though the 'place a good, trash a card' idea would work, it's fiddlier than the original problem I had, which was that the cards-as-goods obscured the icons if you put them on top, and were fiddly to put under.

Oh well. Thank you for the answers.
 
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Iron James Rackham
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swheelock wrote:
Even though the 'place a good, trash a card' idea would work, it's fiddlier than the original problem I had, which was that the cards-as-goods obscured the icons if you put them on top, and were fiddly to put under.

We used to do the "place a good, trash a card" and still found that the benefits of using cubes far outweighed the drawbacks. After a while we stopped trashing cards too as we didn't feel the impact of "not all cards being seen" was that important to us. Admittedly, this is partly because most of our games of this nowadays is 2p, so the deck is almost never exhausted and thus it doesn't matter at all.
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Guido Gloor
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You won't obscure the icons as much if you place the goods-as-cards towards the right and not straight on top, but I'm sure you're doing it like that already It's still a bit of a problem for cards with explanatory text, but I don't find it to be gamebreaking.
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B C Z
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Yes.

Long answer: search will yield about ten of these threads.
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Scott Wheelock
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byronczimmer wrote:
Yes.

Long answer: search will yield about ten of these threads.


Eleven, now.

Here's a good one that I should have found: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/631750/6-reasons-why-i-prefe...
 
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Evgeny Reznikov
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haslo wrote:
You won't obscure the icons as much if you place the goods-as-cards towards the right and not straight on top, but I'm sure you're doing it like that already It's still a bit of a problem for cards with explanatory text, but I don't find it to be gamebreaking.


We occasionally place the goods under the worlds.
 
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Andrzej Fiett
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azuredarkness wrote:
We occasionally place the goods under the worlds.

Well, and how about Galactic Scavengers?

 
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Andy44 wrote:
azuredarkness wrote:
We occasionally place the goods under the worlds.

Well, and how about Galactic Scavengers?

That's easy enough... just reverse the position of it all... the good goes on the bottom, the scavenged cards go on top. Since both sides of this card can be in use, this one may be obscured with no elegant way of leaving the card text visible. I tell people that this is one card that should be memorized
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