Maciej Bodzek
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Hi guys I'm still working on my game (strange??).
Below you will find link to first thread about it.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/830281/to-much-detail/new

In this thread I'm seeking knowledge what successful warfare game might have. After reading all comments in original thread I took load of time to rethink my design and mechanics to clear off unneeded content. I speed up the game play as much as possible and make it as much approachable and straight forward as I could. But honestly I'm still far from finish. So in detail If you players consider buying warfare board game, what you are looking for ?? Considering mostly gameplay. (ex. fast, hard tactic, tricky tactic (which I'm more after easy and tricky or even funny lol), long strategic day etc.

thx

ps. accept any new and old comments
Overlon
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John "Omega" Williams
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That can vary alot from group to group of course.

Warhammer does the job pretty well. HeroScape is a good example of a fairly easy to learn system that plays well too. As does TSRs old Chainmail/Battlesystem wargames. Ragnarok and Chronopia are also well presented. These are all of course minis heavy games. But there are several that do ok with counters.

What you need is a good balance of detail vs ease of play. All the successfull fantasy wargames have this at their core. Especially for unit stats.

Theres so many ways to approach a wargame system. Further extended by if the system is to handle scirmish, large troop forces, or even massive empire struggles.

Then how abstract vs realistic.

How to track the damages incurred.

If theres magic or special races then you have to factor all that in.

Mounted units? Siege engines? Flying units?

etc.
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Maciej Bodzek
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So getting to core is easy and fast gameplay. Well I want to do it on board so rather skirmish up to 20 - 30 figs on board per side. I think I sorted out damage for the time being as the most units will be quite fragile. Well wish to hear more opinions on the topic. As soon as I do few more play tests I will start doing WIP here on forum. So everyone will have slightly more insight than now. To many possible mechanics and ideas are in my head to put it down just yet. If I want to simplify the gameplay I have to add some stuff to make it more interesting.

For now:

- Light fantasy theme opposite to dark heavy fantasy theme of GW game.
- Skirmish rather then regimental solid squad army battles.
- Loads of fantasy races/factions ( I got almost 8 for start) up to around 20+ ??
- Magic, beasts, siege machines, battlefield interaction.
- Upgradeable units
- upgradeable base ??

Can't say much yet as i still need to make up 2nd race unit cards for play testing, as much of it I'm doing currently in my head

Will someone ever invent machine that will do whatever you think of ?? or at least right it down whistle
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If you are planning minis, and this isnt a "use anything you have" PnP game.

Then be very aware that minis are the most costly aspect of game publishing, followed closely by any game with alot of art.
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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Unless I'm misunderstanding, it sounds like the sequence here is 1) design game system focusing on warfare, 2) figure out how warfare should work. That doesn't sound like a promising approach.
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Maciej Bodzek
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You sir misunderstand it than

I know how warfare should work, I'm looking more for suggestion on game play itself not how war should look like as i think we all know it. My problem is I got two ways. 1) Hard tactic game for hardcore nerdy geeks or 2) light arcade strategy game with deep fantasy theme which I like more. Than again it's me. I wanted to start this topic to see how players look at it from different players. Board gamers as from war gamers too, as I'm trying to do light weight version of Warhammer on board. This is my goal and my vision.
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Maciej Bodzek
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Omega2064 wrote:
If you are planning minis, and this isnt a "use anything you have" PnP game.

Then be very aware that minis are the most costly aspect of game publishing, followed closely by any game with alot of art.

Yes I'm very aware that minis will be most costly part of this game.
In the end it all goes to minis how they will look like, size and datail.
I am thinking about Kickstarter here anyway.
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It needs the elusive quality of crisps: Easy to "eat" one, and good enough that you want to "eat" the whole package. Of course, in the case of a game, replace "eat" with "play."

If you are forgoing the "heavy" fantasy of Warhammer and like games, then you are also forgoing factions with deep backstories and many units or figures. Backstory and a lot of units or figures to collect and with which to play draw and keep people playing some games. So excluding that, you must focus on accessibility and replayability. It looks like you've already started taking that approach in considering using a board rather than an open table and terrain, and terreain limits accessibility and replayability for some. Your game must be easy for people to bring to the table, set up, and get to playing quickly. Without backstory to explain lack of balance between sides or to provide character, the sides must be balanced, but interesting enough to play so that they do not become like checkers pieces -- same in every respect except to which side they belong. When the game is done, each player must be left thinking "Next time, I need to try this, this, and this and I will surely win!"

Some games which are in the same realm and with which your game may compete are Summoner Wars and Dungeon Command: Sting of Lolth. Evaluate them and discover how Summoner Wars has built a solid following and watch Dungeon Command do so, as it has just been released.

Good luck!
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Maciej Bodzek
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Sphere wrote:
Unless I'm misunderstanding, it sounds like the sequence here is 1) design game system focusing on warfare, 2) figure out how warfare should work. That doesn't sound like a promising approach.

Ok I'm crappy describer :/ I will go other way. Would you Sir like to play Miniature Wargame but much less army collecting/painting or none at all, with less miniatures but a lot more micro management during play, Unit customization, battlefield (board) interactions, tricky/dirty actions, events changing situation, and so and so ??

I hope it cleared a bit what i got on my mind. Questions is does it sounds FUN ????

thx
Overlon
 
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Maciej Bodzek
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Ursus_Major wrote:
It needs the elusive quality of crisps: Easy to "eat" one, and good enough that you want to "eat" the whole package. Of course, in the case of a game, replace "eat" with "play."

If you are forgoing the "heavy" fantasy of Warhammer and like games, then you are also forgoing factions with deep backstories and many units or figures. Backstory and a lot of units or figures to collect and with which to play draw and keep people playing some games. So excluding that, you must focus on accessibility and replayability. It looks like you've already started taking that approach in considering using a board rather than an open table and terrain, and terreain limits accessibility and replayability for some. Your game must be easy for people to bring to the table, set up, and get to playing quickly. Without backstory to explain lack of balance between sides or to provide character, the sides must be balanced, but interesting enough to play so that they do not become like checkers pieces -- same in every respect except to which side they belong. When the game is done, each player must be left thinking "Next time, I need to try this, this, and this and I will surely win!"

Some games which are in the same realm and with which your game may compete are Summoner Wars and Dungeon Command: Sting of Lolth. Evaluate them and discover how Summoner Wars has built a solid following and watch Dungeon Command do so, as it has just been released.

Good luck!


Thank you very much for this quite detailed answer as it puts black on white what are my own main consideration but rather in much clearer form thx.
Yes I'm looking forward to get Summoner Wars & Mage Wars too as they look promising on magic aspect. I want magic in my game to vary in play and effect from school to school. I also went to shop to buy some cigs and I got enlighten on the way back . You say a lot of units are in Warhammer that gives a lot of replayability and I second that way of thinking. But I will give less Unit but more ways to customize them on the go while playing. The thing is my game will be for 2-6 players so I can't give to many units anyway as this will clutter the board.

Honestly I took 3 games as main core to my project:

1) Final Fantasy Tactic video game for customization and ease of play;
2) Warhammer for theme and possible commerce;
3) Chess for how epic game you can play with small amount of units on small board;

War In Arghandh will be a little child of this sick 3 parent relationship devil
Hopefully it will be teh jackpot
 
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overlon wrote:
Sphere wrote:
Unless I'm misunderstanding, it sounds like the sequence here is 1) design game system focusing on warfare, 2) figure out how warfare should work. That doesn't sound like a promising approach.

Ok I'm crappy describer :/ I will go other way. Would you Sir like to play Miniature Wargame but much less army collecting/painting or none at all, with less miniatures but a lot more micro management during play, Unit customization, battlefield (board) interactions, tricky/dirty actions, events changing situation, and so and so ??

I hope it cleared a bit what i got on my mind. Questions is does it sounds FUN ????

thx
Overlon


So you mean to have like a small army of mercenaries with differet abilities or something like that?
 
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I just read that your player's small army in the game, will have the ability to be customised.
So I think that a very good game mechanic for this game, is the one that belongs to a game "Super Dungeon Explore".
If you want to customise your character, you simply put different kind of "item" or "abilities" card next to whichever character you want.
Watch the video Review from the show "DiceTower" to understand what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6SAWhZcPjE&feature=plcp

 
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overlon wrote:
Sphere wrote:
Unless I'm misunderstanding, it sounds like the sequence here is 1) design game system focusing on warfare, 2) figure out how warfare should work. That doesn't sound like a promising approach.

Ok I'm crappy describer :/ I will go other way. Would you Sir like to play Miniature Wargame but much less army collecting/painting or none at all, with less miniatures but a lot more micro management during play, Unit customization, battlefield (board) interactions, tricky/dirty actions, events changing situation, and so and so ??

If you look at my collection, you'll find that I own a great many games that use minis with varying levels of detail and control.

overlon wrote:
I hope it cleared a bit what i got on my mind. Questions is does it sounds FUN ????

Truthfully, not at this point, for me at least. My experience over the years has been that a design starts getting better when stuff is being thrown out, not while it is still being tacked on. I haven't been interested to take a deep look, but my casual impression is that you're at the too much stuff, not enough play stage.

I hope that doesn't sound unkind; you asked, and when I give feedback, I try to be honest.
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Maciej Bodzek
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Sphere wrote:
overlon wrote:
Sphere wrote:
Unless I'm misunderstanding, it sounds like the sequence here is 1) design game system focusing on warfare, 2) figure out how warfare should work. That doesn't sound like a promising approach.

Ok I'm crappy describer :/ I will go other way. Would you Sir like to play Miniature Wargame but much less army collecting/painting or none at all, with less miniatures but a lot more micro management during play, Unit customization, battlefield (board) interactions, tricky/dirty actions, events changing situation, and so and so ??

If you look at my collection, you'll find that I own a great many games that use minis with varying levels of detail and control.

overlon wrote:
I hope it cleared a bit what i got on my mind. Questions is does it sounds FUN ????

Truthfully, not at this point, for me at least. My experience over the years has been that a design starts getting better when stuff is being thrown out, not while it is still being tacked on. I haven't been interested to take a deep look, but my casual impression is that you're at the too much stuff, not enough play stage.

I hope that doesn't sound unkind; you asked, and when I give feedback, I try to be honest.

Define play stage please devil
 
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Maciej Bodzek
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SweetShark wrote:

I just read that your player's small army in the game, will have the ability to be customised.
So I think that a very good game mechanic for this game, is the one that belongs to a game "Super Dungeon Explore".
If you want to customise your character, you simply put different kind of "item" or "abilities" card next to whichever character you want.
Watch the video Review from the show "DiceTower" to understand what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6SAWhZcPjE&feature=plcp


Yes I own it, good game but honestly .. figs quality or rather design is crappy which actually made me sad as gameplay is really interesting and really fun to play.
 
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What game or games are you trying to improve on? What don't you like about those games? Do other people dislike the same things?
 
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In Little Wars the artillery physically fired wooden 'ammunition'. I'd like to see a game that did something similar (although I looked for similar equipment and couldn't find it).
 
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Maciej Bodzek
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SweetShark wrote:
overlon wrote:
Sphere wrote:
Unless I'm misunderstanding, it sounds like the sequence here is 1) design game system focusing on warfare, 2) figure out how warfare should work. That doesn't sound like a promising approach.

Ok I'm crappy describer :/ I will go other way. Would you Sir like to play Miniature Wargame but much less army collecting/painting or none at all, with less miniatures but a lot more micro management during play, Unit customization, battlefield (board) interactions, tricky/dirty actions, events changing situation, and so and so ??

I hope it cleared a bit what i got on my mind. Questions is does it sounds FUN ????

thx
Overlon


So you mean to have like a small army of mercenaries with differet abilities or something like that?


Well I wish to show a little piece of a fantasy battle/war, to show struggle of few models who luckily or by their skills changed the outcome of the campaign. Something like : "many fight and many die in this war but let's focus on these very few who just might change the history..."

But yes overall its a team against a team with their own skills and equipment ;P
 
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overlon wrote:
SweetShark wrote:
overlon wrote:
Sphere wrote:
Unless I'm misunderstanding, it sounds like the sequence here is 1) design game system focusing on warfare, 2) figure out how warfare should work. That doesn't sound like a promising approach.

Ok I'm crappy describer :/ I will go other way. Would you Sir like to play Miniature Wargame but much less army collecting/painting or none at all, with less miniatures but a lot more micro management during play, Unit customization, battlefield (board) interactions, tricky/dirty actions, events changing situation, and so and so ??

I hope it cleared a bit what i got on my mind. Questions is does it sounds FUN ????

thx
Overlon


So you mean to have like a small army of mercenaries with differet abilities or something like that?


Well I wish to show a little piece of a fantasy battle/war, to show struggle of few models who luckily or by their skills changed the outcome of the campaign. Something like : "many fight and many die in this war but let's focus on these very few who just might change the history..."

But yes overall its a team against a team with their own skills and equipment ;P


Well, my suggestion is to create small group of 3-5 characters having a special Group ability and some special abilities of each character.
 
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