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Subject: Cyclades Nations and Colors - an attempt at resolve ! And a painted gallery ;) rss

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Vincent Pascaud
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Hello folks.
Please apologize any weird english, being french robot

First thing I asked myself when I finished reading Cyclade's rules, is "dang, how do I recognize Sparta, Athens, Corinth, Thebes and Argos ?
I was imagining I could find some help with the colors of the minis, and then I checked the internet, discovered that not only, the colors were random, but the soldiers/boats pair were also !

My initial question became : "How do I recognize the Nations, how do I know which soldiers pair with which boats, and hell, what color are they ?".

Before we started painting - this was a 3 mans project - we did some search. Unfortunately when our search lasted more than an hour, we decided we were losing time painting and stopped where we were.
BUT, painting and all, I noticed some details of the minis that helped me figuring out, and while we didn't get to follow our own discoveries (as we already started painting before noticing some stuff), I hope I can bring, if not sure information, at least helpful suggestions.

First, we'll decide to use this image of some Greek citys episema for reference :



Using this, and crossing informations with the folding screens, we'll be able to make some strong guesses... hopefully

What can we assume ?

SPARTA :



So, identifying Sparta's soldiers is pretty easy. They are the ones with the "V" on their shields. And they look like the badass warriors of the movie 300. But what would be their color ?
Considering we'll go with 300 in mind, they can only be Red.
I hear someone yelling in the back "hey ! when you look at the Black Screen, you can see soldiers with red capes, soooo Spartans !".
This is true, but can we picture the Black nation to wear flashy Red capes ? Hello, lisibility ! And these soldiers on the black screen are no real clue anyway : they got capes AND spears, attributes that together fits no minis of the game.
So we ignored this and stuck with red for the torso-naked guys.



CORYNTH :



Corynth symbol here is a Pegasus. And is blue. Now let’s have a close look at those boats :




They do have some winged animal in front of them, that could easily be seen as a Pegasus. Here are our Corynth boats ! Let's have them blue.


ARGOS :



Oh, there is a snake on Argos armoiries ! This is helpful. Now, let's have a look at those boats :



Hey, they do look like there is a Snake figure in front of them =p
So, here we have a very strong candidate for Argos ships.
We'll dimiss the fact that Argos armoiries are yellow, as the Yellow nation has another stronger candidate, coming next. And, on the plus side, let's look at the black folding screen ; we can easily spot a snake-shape ahead of those boats, and rows ! Let's go black.
Still on this screen, we have those soldiers with spears. We're lacking clues regardng the soldiers, so even if we dismissed the red cape of this soldiers, we're gonna trust their spears. Here are our black soldiers :



THEBES :



You can see Thebes got a Sphynx on its armoiries. So, another easy guess : look at the yellow screen, and, miracle, here are Shynxes !
So, for now, we just know Thebes is yellow.

ATHENS :



Now, we only have one color left, and it's green. Looking at the green Folding screen, we can identify easily a boat with double-sails, rows and an eye pictured on it.





WHAT DO WE HAVE LEFT ?

This leaves us with the two-sworded guys, the girls, and the shield+sword guys.
On the boats side, we have the 2 boats standing on water, with only one sail.
At this point, I have no more ideas on how to decide how to spread them on colors and nations that would fit.
Hopefully, someone will have an idea and we can complete those suggestions and help future happy Cyclade's owners


Even if hey don't totally fit the suggestions above, I'll share with you our paintings for Cyclades :

The creatures :















The nations :



















The Heroes :













Thank you for reading ^^
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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The figures look nice. The question of which nation should be which color has been discussed many times previously, e.g. here, here, and here. Bottom line, the sculpts don't have a consistent color - the publisher had figures produced in every color for each type. One player's Athenians may be yellow, another's red, and still another's black. It's luck of the draw. When you're painting your own, do as you choose.
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Ciaran M
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Love the thought that went into this, and the paint jobs on all the pieces are great too (monsters & Hades armies particularly) - nice!
 
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Vincent Pascaud
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@Sphere> I did mentionned the plastic colors being completely random, and with that in mind, am trying to find a reasonnable reasonning if available to identify soldiers, ships and nations. I had read those subjects when I was asking myself the same question, but did not find enough leads in them.

Anyway, my suggestions are mere guessings, as I don't think the sculptors/game developpers could entirely answer the question themselves ! Yet, you can spot some elements here and there that seem to point where did the designer looked for inspiration meeple
I'm confident other people will have other ideas (and perhaps correct mines !) until we reach a point where we can assign every mini to a color and a nation and explain it smoothly.
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Vinsssounet wrote:
I'm confident other people will have other ideas (and perhaps correct mines !) until we reach a point where we can assign every mini to a color and a nation and explain it smoothly.

If by that you mean that you think everyone will agree, I seriously doubt it. In the ancient world, different units within the same force had different colors . That's still true in the modern world - my dad was in the U.S. Navy and had navy blue, khaki and white uniforms.

You've painted your figures nicely, and that's great, but trying to convince others that a certain color scheme is "right" serves no useful purpose that I can see. À chacun son goût.
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Considering the many treads posted on this subject, there's obviously a demand for some clarity as to which figures belong to which city (myself included whistle).

Personally, I just wish for one of the game's designers to actually respond to one of them with a picture of a fig with the proper (or intended) name of the city.

But until then, IMHO, Sir Vinsssounet deserves nothing but praise for his efforts to solve this on-going mystery through his deductive reasoning.

-Good show brother, may the gods look kindly upon you!
 
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JJ Sino wrote:
Personally, I just wish for one of the game's designers to actually respond to one of them with a picture of a fig with the proper (or intended) name of the city.

What makes you think a specific color or model was intended to match a specific city? There are female models - the female warriors from greek mythology were the Amazons, not the warriors of any of the city states mentioned. And even if they were, note the comments below the image of this female warrior figure:



People (including myself) left comments saying that in their sets that specific model was black, yellow, blue or red instead of the green in the image. Then note that the comments were posted in April and May of 2010, shortly after the first shipment of plastic figures was released. We all got them from the same printing, and that model came in every possible color.

I'd also note that pacman88k said in this post that he did contact the publisher, who told him that there was no consistency in color for the armies.

All that matters is that every player in a given game has their own color. If you are playing in Canada, why would you care what color I'm using in my game in Oregon?
 
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John Sinodinos
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Sphere wrote:
All that matters is that every player in a given game has their own color. If you are playing in Canada, why would you care what color I'm using in my game in Oregon?

I don't. What I said was...
JJ Sino wrote:
Personally, I just wish for one of the game's designers to actually respond to one of them with a picture of a fig with the proper (or intended) name of the city.

Because honestly speaking; there are quite a few threads on the subject, but nothing concrete as to confirm which figure belongs to which city.

However, although I may agree with you where color is concerned...
Sphere wrote:
What makes you think a specific color was intended?

Considering that Cyclades wasn't published by some random game company, I do think that Asmodee/Matagot could've at least cleared up some of the confusion with the figs.
 
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JJ Sino wrote:
What I said was...
JJ Sino wrote:
Personally, I just wish for one of the game's designers to actually respond to one of them with a picture of a fig with the proper (or intended) name of the city.

Because honestly speaking; there are quite a few threads on the subject, but nothing concrete as to confirm which figure belongs to which city.

I'm aware of what you said, but I'm afraid it doesn't make sense to me. If such a connection between cities and sculpts existed, they'd have said so long ago.

The city states named don't even have a tangible connection to the game, they just serve as flavor text. The actual cities were all on the mainland of Greece anyway, not dotted about on islands like the cities in the game.

If Matagot had wanted figures specifically linked to Sparta, Athens, Corinth, Thebes and Argos, they would have most likely used hoplites for all of them, not left handed swordsmen, guys wielding two swords and Amazons*. Those are an artist's conception - and I like them, don't get me wrong. The idea was obviously to have unique figures for each player that looked nice on the board, and that's what was produced.


*The Amazons, by the way, were allies of the Trojans and fought against the Greeks during the siege of Troy. According to the Iliad, their homeland was not in Greece, but in Asia Minor.
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Vincent Pascaud
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Quote:
You've painted your figures nicely, and that's great, but trying to convince others that a certain color scheme is "right" serves no useful purpose that I can see. À chacun son goût.


I think (well, I know in fact) I tried to say quite the opposite. I can quote myself and find a "my suggestions are mere guessings". I dont believe I could be more clear about the fact that I'm , well, errh... merely, suggesting.
I did also tell I was aware/thinking the guys behing the game themselves could not answer that question - because there is no real answer.

Nevertheless, as Sino pointed out, there is an ungoing demand about this "mistery" (and let's be clear... by mistery I do speak of a silly question geeks like us, or at least like me, enjoy to spend time on), and I'm simply trying to dig the question, with whatever clues one can find on the sculpts : because yes, it's a fair guess to imagine the designers did some search about the citys, or at least Greece iconic stuff, and as there is a possibility to relate to the citys mentionned in the rulebook, so do I.

No more !

It's not about finding any Truth that we could consider ourselves the Keepers. Nope.
But maybe next time someone shows up and ask the famous Nations Question, one can have something interesting to suggest.
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Sphere wrote:
JJ Sino wrote:
What I said was...
[q="JJ Sino"]Personally, I just wish for one of the game's designers to actually respond to one of them with a picture of a fig with the proper (or intended) name of the city.

Because honestly speaking; there are quite a few threads on the subject, but nothing concrete as to confirm which figure belongs to which city.

With no offense Sphere, as it's not my goal to argue semantics with anyone over a difference of thought or opinion (we are chatting on a thread after all), but when quoting me like this above; it kinda takes my words out of context. Especially when I was simply stating that it would be nice if one of the designers can shed some light on which mould belongs to which city. I never mentioned anything about color...

But either way, moving on...

Sphere wrote:
I'm aware of what you said, but I'm afraid it doesn't make sense to me. If such a connection between cities and sculpts existed, they'd have said so long ago.

Maybe, but unless you've personally spoken to one of them -how can you be sure? Because they haven't said a word (at least on none of the threads that I've read), doesn't make it unreasonable for anyone to think that there might be a connection. Maybe a big screw up happened during production... who knows?

Sphere wrote:
Those are an artist's conception - and I like them, don't get me wrong. The idea was obviously to have unique figures for each player that looked nice on the board, and that's what was produced.

I completely agree. Matagot succeeded with wonderfully unique sculpts that fit the mythological setting to the T. However, although this might be true...

Sphere wrote:
*The Amazons, by the way, were allies of the Trojans and fought against the Greeks during the siege of Troy. According to the Iliad, their homeland was not in Greece, but in Asia Minor.

-Who's to say that the female figs of Cyclades were meant to represent Amazons? Because according to mythology -unlike the goddess Athena (whose primary worship consisted of Athenians), Artemis (the goddess of the hunt) was worshiped throughout all of Greece -especially in Sparta.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the female figs are meant to be Amazonian or Spartan. All I'm saying that it would be nice to hear from one of the designers to clarify whether each mould belongs to a particular city or not.
 
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JJ Sino wrote:
Sphere wrote:
JJ Sino wrote:
What I said was...
[q="JJ Sino"]Personally, I just wish for one of the game's designers to actually respond to one of them with a picture of a fig with the proper (or intended) name of the city.

Because honestly speaking; there are quite a few threads on the subject, but nothing concrete as to confirm which figure belongs to which city.

With no offense Sphere, as it's not my goal to argue semantics with anyone over a difference of thought or opinion (we are chatting on a thread after all), but when quoting me like this above; it kinda takes my words out of context.

Before you start talking about words out of context, you'd better take a look at how you screwed up that quote. Hint: it says "Sphere" at the top of the quote block, but it doesn't contain a single word I said. You've literally put your own words in my mouth.


JJ Sino wrote:
Maybe, but unless you've personally spoken to one of them -how can you be sure? Because they haven't said a word (at least on none of the threads that I've read), doesn't make it unreasonable for anyone to think that there might be a connection. Maybe a big screw up happened during production... who knows?

If that were the case, and they were going to say so, I can't imagine why they'd wait 2 1/2 years to do so. I don't think there was a screw up.

JJ Sino wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the female figs are meant to be Amazonian or Spartan.

I assume you meant to type Athenian there, not Amazonian, but whatever. Athens, Sparta, Corinth, Thebes and Argos are not mythological cities, they are actual historical cities. Even in myth, none of them fielded armies of women or left handed swordsmen.

Look, going on about it here isn't getting anyone anywhere. If you want an answer from the designers, why not contact them directly? Bruno's profile shows that he was here yesterday, send him a geekmail and let us know what he tells you:

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I guess this is the perfect example of why a man with chubby fingers should never use his phone when posting another's quote on the geek... whistle -what a mess lol!
Sphere wrote:
JJ Sino wrote:
Sphere wrote:
[q="JJ Sino"] What I said was...
[q="JJ Sino"]Personally, I just wish for one of the game's designers to actually respond to one of them with a picture of a fig with the proper (or intended) name of the city.

Because honestly speaking; there are quite a few threads on the subject, but nothing concrete as to confirm which figure belongs to which city.

With no offense Sphere, as it's not my goal to argue semantics with anyone over a difference of thought or opinion (we are chatting on a thread after all), but when quoting me like this above; it kinda takes my words out of context.



Sphere wrote:
Look, going on about it here isn't getting anyone anywhere. If you want an answer from the designers, why not contact them directly? Bruno's profile shows that he was here yesterday, send him a geekmail and let us know what he tells you:

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Anyways, I totally agree. Butting heads won't lead to any definitive answers. I'll give him a shout tomorrow and see what he says. I appreciate the link. Thanks Sphere.
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It would be very difficult to assign a historical color to each of the cities. The thing to remember is that there was very little uniformity among the soldiers of the various city states. Every hoplite had custom made armor, and a different shield color and design from every other soldier.
Even Sparta, the only ones to field a professional army, were not uniform. During the classical period, Sparta did not yet use the lambda symbol. That came some decades after the Greco-Persian wars. Eventually most Spartan hoplites wore the Pilos conical helmet, and the lambda symbol was used. But even then they would all be of different designs.
Due to the Spartan red cloaks every soldier wore, it can safely be assumed that red is the correct color for Sparta. Everyone else is pretty much what you want them to be.
I too have some issues with the left-handed, dual-wielding and "Amazon" soldiers. They are ok I suppose, but IMO entirely too much artistic license has been taken with them, and so I am replacing all of them with historically correct (and right-handed) hoplites..
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Hello all,

I read the whole thread and forst of all I'd like to congratulate Vinssounet for his excellent work on the figurines.

Then I'm probably going to disappoint some of you, but we never had in mind a match between the five factions presented in the book and the game material. So, neither the players screen, nor the ships, nor the warriors where created having in mind a specific city.

That said, part of the game experience is to use your imagination, which is what Vinssounet did. So, feel free to do so as well !
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Oh wow, although the news is a bit disappointing, your timing is absolutely incredible cool!

Via the link Sphere posted, I was just about to write you a geekmail to ask for some clarifications...

Either way, thanks for shedding some light and for producing such a great game. Looking forward to getting my hands on Kemet!
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Vincent Pascaud
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Hey ! That's a nice appearance here.

Thank you for your kind comment.
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matagot_contact wrote:
Hello all,

I read the whole thread and forst of all I'd like to congratulate Vinssounet for his excellent work on the figurines.

Then I'm probably going to disappoint some of you, but we never had in mind a match between the five factions presented in the book and the game material. So, neither the players screen, nor the ships, nor the warriors where created having in mind a specific city.

That said, part of the game experience is to use your imagination, which is what Vinssounet did. So, feel free to do so as well !


Thanks for confirming that none of the game pieces are specific to one of the five city-states. Even going the historical route as I have decided to do, I don't think it is possible to have accurate figures for all of the city-states.
I have been able to find historical figures for Athens, Sparta and Thebes, but that's it. Nothing on Corinth or Argos, and even then no "official" color scheme for any of them (except Sparta). So colors truly are whatever we want them to be.

Edit:
Here's an interesting site that gives more detail on the emblems of the city-states: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?120692-A...

So soldiers could have one of the "official" logos, or a personal design on their shields. Apparently most preferred personal designs. So basically anything goes. That being said, I'm going to go with the following on my hoplites:

Athens: Letter Alpha, Owl, Medusa (blue bases)
Sparta: Letter Lambda, letter Pi, Snake (red bases)
Thebes: Club of Herakles, Sphinx (yellow bases)
Corinth: Pegasus (black bases)
Argos: Hydra (green bases)

And now.. it's time to start painting!
 
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Where are the pink and orange armies?

My wife likes orange and my daughter likes pink... whistle
 
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StevenE wrote:
Where are the pink and orange armies?

My wife likes orange and my daughter likes pink... whistle


Well, you could always get a couple extra sets of the Amazons and do a set for each of them in their favorite color..
 
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