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Subject: Double Time two turns in a row? rss

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Damon Baume
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Situation:

A FRIENDLY MMC uses Double Time movement and therefore becomes CX.

In the ENEMY's turn the CX MMC breaks due to Prep or Advancing Fire and therefore loses the CX status upon becoming broken.

The broken unit then rallies in the subsequent FRIENDLY RPh.

Question:

Can this MMC use Double Time movement in the MPh, effectively using Double Time in two consecutive turns?

I'm thinking it can because the unit is not under CX when it starts its MPh. My interpretation of the rules is that being under CX precludes the consecutive use of DT not the fact that you had used DT in a previous turn, otherwise why would you be required to remove a CX counter upon breaking?

NRBH so I can't cite specific rules/quotes to back up my argument but my opponent reads the Double Time/CX rules as saying that you can't DT two turns in a row and I tend to disagree.

Thank you for your attention...
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Malcolm Cameron
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Sounds right to me.

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Mark Evans
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I just went through the rules. I always heard in my head a unit cannot double time two turns in a row. It appears that is not correct. A unit cannot double time if it has a CX marker on it.

So advancing vs. difficult terrain would also prevent double time. I didn't know this, or I knew it and forgot it.
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Dave Terhune
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This is a blatant example of frivolous geek gold spending.
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I spent 100 geek gold and all I got was this lousy overtext.
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CX also prevents advance vs. difficult terrain. So a unit that has double-timed in its movement phase can't advance vs. difficult terrain because it's already CX.
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Brian Sielski
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sapper_D wrote:

Question:

Can this MMC use Double Time movement in the MPh, effectively using Double Time in two consecutive turns?



Yes! CX is lost when broken, and you can 2x move the next turn!
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Spencer Armstrong
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Dr Brian wrote:
sapper_D wrote:

Question:

Can this MMC use Double Time movement in the MPh, effectively using Double Time in two consecutive turns?



Yes! CX is lost when broken, and you can 2x move the next turn!


So if you really need to move fast, you can voluntarily break all of your units and rally them so you can just keep double timing.

It is a bit of an oddity, but it fits perfectly with ASL's philosophy that you don't have to remember what happened last turn/phase/etc. You can just go by what's on the board and know what's possible. I think they thought remembering the rules was enough, you shouldn't have to keep track of what you did an hour ago.

S
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Mike Restall
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Strange how the extra activity of Breaking/Rallying helps this unit to relax enough to exert itself more than a unit that hasnt undergone any combat

Regardless, the rulings clearly state CX is lost when breaking, and a unit can CX in the subsequent turn if it hasnt a CX marker. I overthought this issue instead of just playing it as the RB states it. I guess the Rally process is enough of a motivational activity to justify the double CX ability.
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Bradley Knoll
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You are right. Once broke they lose CX. If they rally they are eligible for Double Time.

Here is something that you can do with SS. Take a stack of 3 SS squads and a -1 or -2 leader. Double time them, run forward as far as you can to a position that will allow you to rout 'forward', voluntarily break them, rout them 'forward', They have a broken morale of 9 so with rally terrain and -1 leader they rally on a 7 or 8 with a -2 leader. Declare Double Time again and repeat. Finding the spot that allows a rout 'forward' is the tricky part.
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Jeffrey D Myers
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And try not to roll 6-6 on rallying!
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Brian Roundhill
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bk_otj wrote:
You are right. Once broke they lose CX. If they rally they are eligible for Double Time.

Here is something that you can do with SS. Take a stack of 3 SS squads and a -1 or -2 leader. Double time them, run forward as far as you can to a position that will allow you to rout 'forward', voluntarily break them, rout them 'forward', They have a broken morale of 9 so with rally terrain and -1 leader they rally on a 7 or 8 with a -2 leader. Declare Double Time again and repeat. Finding the spot that allows a rout 'forward' is the tricky part.


I think you can only voluntarily break if you have LOS to a Known enemy unit, so finding the spot that allows this is very tricky. Commissars also help when doing this trick.
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Stephen Stewart
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drmark64 wrote:
I just went through the rules. I always heard in my head a unit cannot double time two turns in a row. It appears that is not correct. A unit cannot double time if it has a CX marker on it.

So advancing vs. difficult terrain would also prevent double time. I didn't know this, or I knew it and forgot it.



Yeah, try this next time you have to move units far...
Commissar with a bunch of 458's DT to the Front.
Voluntarily break ( I think the rules were changed to have only allow this if you are in the LOS of enemy units...GO? IDK..) anyway...seek good cover or be out of range.

Next rally phase...Bounce them all up with a 10 needed for each assuming you have non LDR Modifier...
Then off to the races again.
 
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Damon Baume
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Thank you for the replies gentlemen!

You've confirmed what I thought and also given some interesting tactical applications for this situation.
 
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Brian Sielski
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Roundhill wrote:
I think you can only voluntarily break if you have LOS to a Known enemy unit, so finding the spot that allows this is very tricky. Commissars also help when doing this trick.


Nearly impossible to do. First, you have to have a scneario that actually has that much space to allow it. Then, a smart player will make you pay dearly. I love doing that.

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Martin Vicca
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Don't forget to use this when playing the Japanese.
Double time 8 hexes with a 10-1 leader. Break and rout forwards another 6 hexes. Rally with a 10 (+1 leader present, +1 woods, -1 leader) and off you go again. Only probelm is the leader can't double time since he doesn't break...
 
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Brian Roundhill
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Vinnie37 wrote:
Don't forget to use this when playing the Japanese.
Double time 8 hexes with a 10-1 leader. Break and rout forwards another 6 hexes. Rally with a 10 (+1 leader present, +1 woods, -1 leader) and off you go again. Only probelm is the leader can't double time since he doesn't break...


Do it against the Japanese too! Double time 8 hexes. Voluntarily break, have the HIP reveal and die where you stand!
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Brian Sielski
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As you can see, the smart thing to do is not actually use this as a tactic. It's plane stupid.

However, sometimes, there is the freak occurance where it could happen, and you should use that to your advantage.
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Brian Roundhill
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Dr Brian wrote:
As you can see, the smart thing to do is not actually use this as a tactic. It's plane stupid.

However, sometimes, there is the freak occurance where it could happen, and you should use that to your advantage.


This exact tactic is difficult and usually silly to try. But I have used the core of the tactic many times - break units to rout in the enemy's turn, rally and reposition in my turn. Lenin's Sons as the Russians is my primary example of this - have not lost with the Russians using this tactic.
 
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ian morris
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Roundhill wrote:
Dr Brian wrote:
As you can see, the smart thing to do is not actually use this as a tactic. It's plane stupid.

However, sometimes, there is the freak occurance where it could happen, and you should use that to your advantage.


This exact tactic is difficult and usually silly to try. But I have used the core of the tactic many times - break units to rout in the enemy's turn, rally and reposition in my turn. Lenin's Sons as the Russians is my primary example of this - have not lost with the Russians using this tactic.



IIRC, this is also a valid tactic for the Finns to use in ASL1, Fighting Withdrawal.


 
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