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Subject: Can I just pick this up and play? rss

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Jeff Engel

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So, I never played the original Netrunner, but I'd heard good things and I certainly play my fair share of MTG, so this certainly had me intrigued coming (originally) from Richard Garfield and all. That said, I don't think I have a lot of interest in the tournament scene and I'm not sure how much I'll get into the local Netrunner "Community" (assuming I even found one around here). So my question is, will I be able to basically pick this up and play it out of the box as more or less a 2-player board game (to play with my wife, random interested friends, etc)? FFG's Game of Thrones LCG is setup this way with 4 ready-to-play decks, and I was kind of hoping that this would be similar. An unboxing video I watched had me a little worried, especially when he said that you would probably need "2 to 3 of these [Core sets] to get started."

And with that being said, I suppose the follow-up question is... would it even be worth playing like this?
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Enon Sci
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Yes.

Whomever said you'd needed 2 or 3 core sets to get started was speaking with preconceptions, or a hardcore tournament outlook. This game is friendlier than AGoT's in respect to flexibility with a single core.

It breaks down like this: 7 factions come in the box. These are composed of 25~35 Faction cards and the remainder being neutral cards. You just slot the X number of Faction cards into the Y number of neutrals and you're ready to go, no thinking required.

However, unlike AGoT, this also offers some minimal deck tuning options: most faction cards carry a series of dots that are its Influence rating. Each core faction has a maximum of 15 Influence that it can accept from other factions of its type, so you can run a Jintek Corp deck mixed with up to 15 Influence from other Corp factions (e.g. like that Weyland ice? Just make sure the pips add up to less than 15 and you can slot it in). Once these cards are in your deck, they play like any other card from your deck (unlike AGoT which requires you pay more to put an out of faction card into play).

So not only do you have 12 potential match-ups out of the base set (4 Corp factions x 3 Runner factions, each playing differently in some major respects), but you have the added benefit of mixing the best from one with the others.

Finishing off my rejection of needing 2~3 cores, if you check the numbers on the included cards (link at bottom), you'll see that most come in at least a x2 distribution, and many even in a x3. Very few cards that aren't limited in some fashion (Uniques in AGoT speak) come in only a single denomination.

Anyhoo, here are all the cards: http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/netrunner/android-netrun...

p.s. Do you know why FFG doesn't put x3 of every card in a box? It's specifically so you can take Card Grouping A (Factions) and mix them, without thinking, with Card Grouping B (Neutrals) to get a legal play deck of 45~49 cards, depending on Faction. If you had x3 out of the box, you'd either have a smaller number of card variety in a deck, or have to painstakingly build the deck yourself out of the box (picking and choosing which cards should be x3, x2 and x1, which can take forever to get right, especially for new players). FFG's decision is specifically to make the most friendly product for people like yourself, casual gamers looking to have an out-of-box experience.
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Jeff Engel

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Cool, thanks. I think the person in the unboxing video was worried that there weren't 3-offs of every card, so perhaps was speaking more to the "serious" player who basically only needs the set for the cards they want to put their own decks together (which is obviously not the direction I'd really like to go with this at the moment. =) ) So I won't pass too much judgment on his assessment. =)
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Enon Sci
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leshrac55 wrote:
Cool, thanks. I think the person in the unboxing video was worried that there weren't 3-offs of every card, so perhaps was speaking more to the "serious" player who basically only needs the set for the cards they want to put their own decks together (which is obviously not the direction I'd really like to go with this at the moment. =) ) So I won't pass too much judgment on his assessment. =)


Pssst, be sure to see the addendum I added at the bottom of my last reply regarding the lack of 3-offs in the box.

Nevertheless, I can't guarantee you'll dig the game, but it's looking pretty damn impressive and definitely a flexible offering from FFG.

I hope you enjoy.



edit: I said it in passing, but this deserves a more direct commentary ->
leshrac55 wrote:
FFG's Game of Thrones LCG is setup this way with 4 ready-to-play decks, and I was kind of hoping that this would be similar. An unboxing video I watched had me a little worried, especially when he said that you would probably need "2 to 3 of these [Core sets] to get started."


A Game of Thrones, to my knowledge, is the least friendly of any of FFG's CCGs for variety out of a single core. A large percentage of the cards are in x1 denominations, and you aren't even able to construct tournament legal decks (60 cards) for any house with what is included. On top of that, the rules (and theme, of course) inhibit deck mixing, so variety can't even be filled out in that fashion. AGoT is a wonderful game, perhaps the only other LCG that interests me, but if it meets your needs as a single core investment, then you needn't worry about any other product in FFG's line.

In comparison, Netrunner allows you to construct tournament legal decks out of the box, more freely mix faction cards between decks and offers more x2 and x3 offerings in the mix.

Buying 2 decks in AGoT is probably recommended for most players, if for no other reason than to have another Valar Morghulis, never mind getting access to enough cards to do deck building since several of the better cards for a house come in the core. Multiple cores almost feels like a necessity. However, with Netrunner, multiple cores is most definitely a luxury, and not one that would definitively turn the tide for that player.
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Jeff Engel

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Anarchosyn wrote:
leshrac55 wrote:
Cool, thanks. I think the person in the unboxing video was worried that there weren't 3-offs of every card, so perhaps was speaking more to the "serious" player who basically only needs the set for the cards they want to put their own decks together (which is obviously not the direction I'd really like to go with this at the moment. =) ) So I won't pass too much judgment on his assessment. =)


Pssst, be sure to see the addendum I added at the bottom of my last reply specifically regarding the lack of 3-offs in the box.

Nevertheless, I can't guarantee you'll dig the game, but it's looking pretty damn impressive and definitely a flexible offering from FFG.

I hope you enjoy.



I saw it... that makes sense. I think I'll probably like the game (and I quickly put a pre-order in to come with my next MTG order when I noticed that the number available had quickly evaporated down to 2 at my pre-order site). The trick will be getting the wife to play it with me (I know I mentioned it earlier, but I actually have yet to play the AGoT game too despite having owned it for awhile... I just liked that it was ready to go out of the box).
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leshrac55 wrote:
So, I never played the original Netrunner, but I'd heard good things and I certainly play my fair share of MTG, so this certainly had me intrigued coming (originally) from Richard Garfield ...

And with that being said, I suppose the follow-up question is... would it even be worth playing like this?


I've played Magic as well and first off, I'd like to say: Don't expect this to be very much like Magic. Don't expect it to be anything but different. Richard Garfield decided to improve on the things he wasn't satisfied with when he saw how Magic evolved and Netrunner was the result.

There is no mana screwage, a hand of bad cards is actually a boon in several instances, there are no dedicated resource cards that clutter your deck (like lands), there is a LOT of bluffing since you don't only have to bluff with your hand but one player gets to bluff with almost every card he puts on the table. This integral part of netrunner making/calling bluffs, means that the two same decks pitted against each other will often play out differently from time to time since every move should ideally be decided by the current state of the game. I've played about 30 games with the same runner deck pitted against the same corp deck (built with only three of every card, not an unlimited number of every card as was allowed in the old rules) and very few games felt the same. Changing out three cards of a kind with three other can really change the speed or efficiency of a deck and will give some different games.
Heck, even when you've played the same corp deck so many times you know what to expect, means the game shifts emphasis because you know quite well what to expect but you'll still have to call those bluffs and so it never becomes a tedious affair.
I'll say though, that the corp deck I played against so many times had a lot more traps that looked like agendas (so they could be used for bluffing) than most of the decks you can make with the new rules, so this might have been the reason for the longevity of those two match-ups but seriously doubt you'll get less than a 100 great games out the core set without any need to tinker with deck construction beyond shuffling a faction with some neutrals.

It's a very different card game from any other I've come across and I think it deserves a spot on any gaming shelf along with Twilight Struggle and Command & Colours: Ancients.
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Stunke wrote:

I'll say though, that the corp deck I played against so many times had a lot more traps that looked like agendas (so they could be used for bluffing) than most of the decks you can make with the new rules, so this might have been the reason for the longevity of those two match-ups but seriously doubt you'll get less than a 100 great games out the core set without any need to tinker with deck construction beyond shuffling a faction with some neutrals.


Awesome post, Stunke. I'm sending that to a friend.

To the OP, one clarification correction however: In the bolded section, I believe he meant "than most of the decks you can make with the new cards" opposed to "rules." The rules surrounding traps haven't changed, so future expansions will help fill the void between classic NR and modern.

Please correct me if I'm misrepresenting you, Stunke.
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Where is the unboxing video?


Edit:
The video referenced was for AGoT, not A:NR.

 
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Jeff Engel

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byronczimmer wrote:
Where is the unboxing video?


Edit:
The video referenced was for AGoT, not A:NR.



It was not. Search YouTube for Gencon 2012 and the video should be there. Searching Netrunner Gencon I would assume would be te same thing. Sorry for no link, on my iPhone now.

Edit: The video is called Gencon 2012: Netrunner Unboxing.
 
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Jeff Engel

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Stunke wrote:
leshrac55 wrote:
So, I never played the original Netrunner, but I'd heard good things and I certainly play my fair share of MTG, so this certainly had me intrigued coming (originally) from Richard Garfield ...

And with that being said, I suppose the follow-up question is... would it even be worth playing like this?


I've played Magic as well and first off, I'd like to say: Don't expect this to be very much like Magic. Don't expect it to be anything but different. Richard Garfield decided to improve on the things he wasn't satisfied with when he saw how Magic evolved and Netrunner was the result.

There is no mana screwage, a hand of bad cards is actually a boon in several instances, there are no dedicated resource cards that clutter your deck (like lands), there is a LOT of bluffing since you don't only have to bluff with your hand but one player gets to bluff with almost every card he puts on the table. This integral part of netrunner making/calling bluffs, means that the two same decks pitted against each other will often play out differently from time to time since every move should ideally be decided by the current state of the game. I've played about 30 games with the same runner deck pitted against the same corp deck (built with only three of every card, not an unlimited number of every card as was allowed in the old rules) and very few games felt the same. Changing out three cards of a kind with three other can really change the speed or efficiency of a deck and will give some different games.
Heck, even when you've played the same corp deck so many times you know what to expect, means the game shifts emphasis because you know quite well what to expect but you'll still have to call those bluffs and so it never becomes a tedious affair.
I'll say though, that the corp deck I played against so many times had a lot more traps that looked like agendas (so they could be used for bluffing) than most of the decks you can make with the new rules, so this might have been the reason for the longevity of those two match-ups but seriously doubt you'll get less than a 100 great games out the core set without any need to tinker with deck construction beyond shuffling a faction with some neutrals.

It's a very different card game from any other I've come across and I think it deserves a spot on any gaming shelf along with Twilight Struggle and Command & Colours: Ancients.


And I own neither of those... In any case, I wasn't expecting it to be like MTG, just that I knew people liked the game and many consider it to be Richard Garfield's best game. Thanks for the post!
 
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Mat Nowak
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Found it:
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Anarchosyn wrote:
Stunke wrote:

I'll say though, that the corp deck I played against so many times had a lot more traps that looked like agendas (so they could be used for bluffing) than most of the decks you can make with the new rules, so this might have been the reason for the longevity of those two match-ups but seriously doubt you'll get less than a 100 great games out the core set without any need to tinker with deck construction beyond shuffling a faction with some neutrals.


Awesome post, Stunke. I'm sending that to a friend.

To the OP, one clarification correction however: In the bolded section, I believe he meant "than most of the decks you can make with the new cards" opposed to "rules." The rules surrounding traps haven't changed, so future expansions will help fill the void between classic NR and modern.

Please correct me if I'm misrepresenting you, Stunke.

I think that by rules he meant faction rules, prohibiting you from mixing all cards at will...
 
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Mateui wrote:
Found it:


I'm kinda surprised they decided to go with no board. Seems like, especially the corp, could have a little landing-strip board or something.

Not complaining, just find it interesting for FFG.
 
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Quizoid wrote:
I'm kinda surprised they decided to go with no board. Seems like, especially the corp, could have a little landing-strip board or something.

Not complaining, just find it interesting for FFG.


They could have done a board, but everything for the corp is nicely denoted by the card stacks (R+D is the deck, Archives are your discards) or your Identity card (representing your hand/HQ). A board could be used to show these 3 main areas, but isn't really necessary.

Also, the corporation can technically create an unlimited number of subsidiary data forts. In my classic Netrunner games I've sometimes had 4 or 5 at once. And similarly, there is no limit to the number of ICE placed in front of a fort.

So this would leave FFG with 2 choices, if they wanted a board:
1 - Make a board just to mark the three main areas, which isn't really necessary, since they are already marked well by your decks and Identity card.

2 - Create an infinitely wide board to accommodate data forts, with infinite depth to accommodate any number of guardian ICE

And of course, any board would add to the MSRP.
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GameMasterX0 wrote:


2 - Create an infinitely wide board to accommodate data forts, with infinite depth to accommodate any number of guardian ICE


I expected a board that said, "Remote Servers ->" indicating infinite Remote Servers that-a-way.

But, yeah, it doesn't need a board. Neither does Thunderstone, but we got one laugh It does make it easier for new players, but it's not a necessity for this kind of game.
 
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So how many individual decks can you make from a Core? I'm thinking it's enough for two player who want to go tourney - i.e. one Runner and one Corp for each - right?
 
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One Corp and one Runner for ONE player.
 
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aerolb wrote:
So how many individual decks can you make from a Core? I'm thinking it's enough for two player who want to go tourney - i.e. one Runner and one Corp for each - right?


You can make 7 Starter decks and many customized decks.

Simultaneously, you can make 2 decks.
 
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Anarchosyn wrote:
p.s. Do you know why FFG doesn't put x3 of every card in a box?


I assume because they wouldn't have made the profit margin they wanted on it if they had included that many cards.

I mean, there's no reason they couldn't have put x3 of every card in the box. They just would have had to include more cards in the box. Which would have increased the cost of goods. This, in turn, would result in either a price increase or a lower profit margin for FFG.
 
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SlyFrog wrote:
Anarchosyn wrote:
p.s. Do you know why FFG doesn't put x3 of every card in a box?


I assume because they wouldn't have made the profit margin they wanted on it if they had included that many cards.

I mean, there's no reason they couldn't have put x3 of every card in the box. They just would have had to include more cards in the box. Which would have increased the cost of goods. This, in turn, would result in either a price increase or a lower profit margin for FFG.


Way to quote out of context. He answered the question in the post.
 
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Allen Doum
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And another thread sinks into the morass of the "lumpy distribution".

Seriously. Don't you guys ever read the other threads? shake
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Anarchosyn wrote:
Whomever said you'd needed 2 or 3 core sets to get started was speaking with preconceptions, or a hardcore tournament outlook.


Truth. There might be 3 cards worth doubling up core sets, really only for particular identities, and many of these cards are credit-prohibitive or memory-prohibitive. It's not worth an extra $40-80 unless there's a reason to go ridiculously "pro"; most gamer circles will do fine with one copy per person.
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AllenDoum wrote:
And another thread sinks into the morass of the "lumpy distribution".

Seriously. Don't you guys ever read the other threads? shake

It's because the explanations are largely bogus. If everyone had stayed with the truth, one thread might have been enough.
 
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byronczimmer wrote:
SlyFrog wrote:
Anarchosyn wrote:
p.s. Do you know why FFG doesn't put x3 of every card in a box?


I assume because they wouldn't have made the profit margin they wanted on it if they had included that many cards.

I mean, there's no reason they couldn't have put x3 of every card in the box. They just would have had to include more cards in the box. Which would have increased the cost of goods. This, in turn, would result in either a price increase or a lower profit margin for FFG.


Way to quote out of context. He answered the question in the post.


It wasn't a quote out of context. It was the truth. FFG could have put 3x of each card in the box. It would have either caused a higher price or lower profit margin for FFG.

To suggest that they put in fewer cards for the benefit of players is ridiculous.

Once they decided how many cards would allow them to meet their profit margin, then they may well have decided how to distribute that number of cards to maximize benefit for the players.

But that's not why they decided not to include 3x of each card. And since the quote specifically said, "Do you know why FFG doesn't put x3 of every card in a box?," I responded to that quote, not whatever version you made up in your own mind.

The reason they did not put 3x of every card in a box is pricing/profit margin, pure and simple. They could have 3x of every card that is in the current box. It just would have reduced FFG's profit margin to do it.
 
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SlyFrog wrote:
The reason they did not put 3x of every card in a box is pricing/profit margin, pure and simple. They could have 3x of every card that is in the current box. It just would have reduced FFG's profit margin to do it.


And having opened the actual box and looking at the cards, another reason is that they didn't want a bunch of "only need one of this in a deck, really" cards languishing in the box without ever being played - unless you were desperate to buy a dozen boxes so that all your deck ideas could be simultaneously constructed at once, MAYBE.
 
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