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Subject: Updated Rules? rss

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Jared Parkinson
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Has anyone heard if the designers are planing on releasing a PDF of updated rules. Reading the rules is one of the least favorite parts of gaming to me and so I really find it annoying to have to read the rules then waste a play because I have to trudge through the forums trying to find the correct way to play in the gaming situations that come up. I would really rather have an updated rule book that reads better, than a FAQ patch, but I would just appreciate something.

I'm not trying to bring up the whole post kickstarter rule release. It doesn't bother me they waited, but it just boggles me when a rule book is sub par. I'm sure it's hard to write, but at the same time is the one thing you know you can do 100% correctly before the release and so much of the games perception is influenced by the quality and completness of the rules it seems like it would be one aspect that you would make sure to get right.
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John Van Wagoner
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i'm with you...i've had my game for 1-2 weeks already, and after reading the orig rulebook have put off playing our 1st game; i'm waiting for an "updated/improved" rulebook before i even get it to the table...
 
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Dan Keller
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John_VW wrote:
i'm with you...i've had my game for 1-2 weeks already, and after reading the orig rulebook have put off playing our 1st game; i'm waiting for an "updated/improved" rulebook before i even get it to the table...


OK yes there are some issues with the rulebook. But really, it's not so incomprehensible that you can't play the game. What exactly in the rulebook is so unclear that you can't break out the game and play?

I don't think I've ever played a game for the first time with a full understanding of the rules right off the bat. Empirical play will actually make clear some ambiguities and understanding about why some things are done as they are.

I'd suggest giving it a go even if there are some questions you have about the rules. Unless the people you're playing with are very unreasonable about learning new games, just explain you're still getting used to the rules and you may have to refer to the rulebook a few times during the first playthrough.
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Dan Keller
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chopperdan wrote:

OK yes there are some issues with the rulebook.


For the record, most of the issues are minor in my opinion. Yes it could have benefited from an index but honestly the actual rules are only 16 pages. We're not talking "War and Peace" here. I found the layout of the rules fairly straightforward. There were some grammar issues, but I chalk this up to translation issues (the designers are French if you hadn't noticed previously) and the meaning can obtained from context. A couple skills were missing from the list and a couple were revised in the PDF from the printed rulebook for clarity.

Overall though, I found the rulebook pretty clear on introducing the game rules. I'm honestly not sure what some people complaining about this are expecting. We're not talking about some scholarly journal submission that needs to be vetted for logic and facts.
 
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Lunar Sol
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What are the issues with the rulebook? We haven't run across any problems thus far. It's all pretty simple and straight forward.
 
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Jared Parkinson
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chopperdan wrote:
John_VW wrote:
i'm with you...i've had my game for 1-2 weeks already, and after reading the orig rulebook have put off playing our 1st game; i'm waiting for an "updated/improved" rulebook before i even get it to the table...


OK yes there are some issues with the rulebook. But really, it's not so incomprehensible that you can't play the game. What exactly in the rulebook is so unclear that you can't break out the game and play?

I don't think I've ever played a game for the first time with a full understanding of the rules right off the bat. Empirical play will actually make clear some ambiguities and understanding about why some things are done as they are.

I'd suggest giving it a go even if there are some questions you have about the rules. Unless the people you're playing with are very unreasonable about learning new games, just explain you're still getting used to the rules and you may have to refer to the rulebook a few times during the first playthrough.


Sure I don't have a photographic memory and do refer to the rules often during play of a new game. What I'm concerned with is that the rules I need clarifying have the answers buried in the forums. It just bugs me that you can raise hundreds of thousands of dollars and can't translate that capital into a high quality rule book. After I saw all the questions and frustration in the forums on the rules and how much it was going for on eBay I almost sold mine. But if it is a good game I don't want the rules to dissuade me.
 
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Dan Keller
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Saca_Muela wrote:
After I saw all the questions and frustration in the forums on the rules and how much it was going for on eBay I almost sold mine. But if it is a good game I don't want the rules to dissuade me.


Play it first. Many of the questions I've seen posed are either from missing the rule right in the book (zombie spawns in newly opened buildings is a common one, but clearly in the rulebook), or just "if X, then Y, correct?" clarifications.

The game is very playable right out of the box. And hella fun.
 
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George
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I didn't think the rulebook was that bad on first read, and I knew where to look for stuff when I had to look it up. The problem is during (first) play I had to look up stuff a lot and answers weren't always clear (especially the car rules which I find especially unclear).

My gaming pet peeve is player aids or back page summaries that seem useful, but leave just enough out that you constantly have to flip back through the rules.

For example, for Move they could have mentioned you add an action for each zombie in the zone you're leaving. For search, they could have mentioned searching in cars. For Open a Door, they should add that you then populate empty buildings when you open them. No mention of driving a car action. Make Noise could clarify you add 1 token. Zombie Attack has no guidance at all.

It feels like they needed to do some blind playtesting and write down all the questions that people asked on the first playthrough and make sure they were clearly answered.

I always want to make sure I'm playing right so I'm fond of clear rules. I wish game publishers spent more time on quality rules. This rulebook seems about average, which unfortunately isn't saying too much.
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thats the thing it would have been easy for them to get the rules read before they put out the game. all they needed to do was put them out on the kickstarter page.

don't think I will be backing any game that does not trust the buyer to read the rules on kickstarter again.

 
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Dan Keller
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ahammer wrote:
thats the thing it would have been easy for them to get the rules read before they put out the game. all they needed to do was put them out on the kickstarter page.

don't think I will be backing any game that does not trust the buyer to read the rules on kickstarter again.



That's certainly a reasonable expectation for Kickstarter games. However, if I can get a reasonable expectation of game play either through early reviews or video game-play examples, I will back the project if these meet my expectations, even if a full rules set is not yet available. This was the case with Zombicide and I definitely feel it lived up to expectations I had from the game play video.
 
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don't get me wrong I'm happy with the game/ way it pays(from reading the rules.. as I was one of the people that got left out of the 1st shipment) .. but the rules would be lot better layout if they had crowd sourced them.
 
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Dave P
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Just knocked out our fist game, 6 players, scenario 1, took a while to find that damn water.

The only question we ran into on the rules was clarification on Dave's starting ability which we made an assumption then I checked the forums on my phone and found that our conclusion was correct.

All in all I found the rules a very easy read and it wasn't all that hard to find anything we needed when looking for reference. Biggest question we had was about the building spawns but once we located the rule we really didn't reference the book after turn 3. Game took about 2-2.5 hours.

I can tell you we had a huge stack of games on the table and all the players said the following: Damn that was fun, lets just play this again!.

Break it out, you'll like it.
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Daniel Schulz
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When I learn a new game, I read the rules quickly, play the game solitaire, then re-read the rules carefully. This game has an intro scenario, and can be played solitaire!

The rule book is not that bad - certainly not an excuse not to play.
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