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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Question about Heroic Feats rss

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Luke
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This is sort of a 2-part question that came up in a campaign last night.

We were playing the first Fat Goblin quest, where you collect the bales of crops.

I as Overlord, immobilized Jain Fairwood, which means on her turn she can't use move actions or suffer fatigue to move. On her turn she decided to use her heroic feat ("You may move double your Speed and perform an attack. This attack may be performed before, after, or during this movement"), claiming that a heroic feat is not listed as a move action in itself, that is just provides the ability to move.

Question 1: Can you use hero abilities and feats that allow you to move when immobilized?

So after conceding that the ability is not a move action in itself and can be used (it is a heroic feat after all, it should allow you to do something interesting), Jain decided she was going to attack first (OK), use some of the move portion of the heroic feat to next to a crop objective token (OK), then use her second action to pick the crop up (OK), then continue moving with the crops using the remaining movement points from the heroic feat (not OK).

Her argument is (and this is based on what I told them about the rules) that because you can normally do things during a movement action, such as attack, pick up items (pg. 7, Hero Turn Summary), she should be able to pick up an item (which is her second action, the first being the heroic feat) while resolving the feat itself.

My argument is that you need to resolve the entire heroic feat itself before using a second action, especially one as complex as Jain Fairwood's.

Question 2: Do special hero actions need to be resolved completely before choosing a second action?

I can't find anything in the rulebook that seems to disallow it but would like clarification as it is the very start of the campaign.

Thanks!
 
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Chris J Davis
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sirmuffinman wrote:


Question 1: Can you use hero abilities and feats that allow you to move when immobilized?


Yes, as long as the ability does not give you "move actions", you can use it.

Quote:
Question 2: Do special hero actions need to be resolved completely before choosing a second action?


Yes. The only action that can be "interrupted" is a Move action.
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Vernan Stanton
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1. I would say no, a doubled speed of zero is zero and what's the point of being immobilised if you can move, heroic feat or not.
2. I would say depends on the heroic feat. you can search, revive and attack in the middle of a move action.
3. as overlord you are allowed to punch cheaty players like that in the face and shout 'that's what you get for being too technical with the rules.'
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Luke
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bleached_lizard wrote:
Yes. The only action that can be "interrupted" is a Move action.


Thanks. Now that I think about, that's the easiest way to interpret it. I didn't think of that at all, damn it.
 
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NerdyCat wrote:
1. I would say no, a doubled speed of zero is zero and what's the point of being immobilised if you can move, heroic feat or not.
2. I would say depends on the heroic feat. you can search, revive and attack in the middle of a move action.
3. as overlord you are allowed to punch cheaty players like that in the face and shout 'that's what you get for being too technical with the rules.'


The worst part is that none of them have read the rules, they have no interest in it.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Rules as written, you can use Heroic Feats that allow movement while immobilized, but it seems silly to me. The word immobilized implies that the Hero cannot move, but then, the idea behind a Heroic Feat is that it's a pretty impressive thing that can be done. I wouldn't be surprised if it were errata'd to say that Immobilized figures cannot voluntarily move under any circumstances, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it stayed the way it's currently written either.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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NerdyCat wrote:
1. I would say no, a doubled speed of zero is zero and what's the point of being immobilised if you can move, heroic feat or not.


The problem with this explanation is that the Immobilized Condition does not say "your speed is reduced to zero," it says that you cannot take a Move Action or spend Fatigue to move. The character's speed is the same as it always was.

I agree with the sentiment, though. It seems strange to call the condition "Immobilized" while still allowing certain avenues for movement.
 
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Krinn DNZ
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sirmuffinman wrote:
NerdyCat wrote:
1. I would say no, a doubled speed of zero is zero and what's the point of being immobilised if you can move, heroic feat or not.
2. I would say depends on the heroic feat. you can search, revive and attack in the middle of a move action.
3. as overlord you are allowed to punch cheaty players like that in the face and shout 'that's what you get for being too technical with the rules.'


The worst part is that none of them have read the rules, they have no interest in it.


That's pretty distressing, that's kind of in "why are you playing with these people" territory.

For a complex game, in my area, it's a baseline expectation that everyone has at least skimmed the rules and made a good-faith attempt to absorb the basic mechanics.
 
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Chris J Davis
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krinndnz wrote:
sirmuffinman wrote:
NerdyCat wrote:
1. I would say no, a doubled speed of zero is zero and what's the point of being immobilised if you can move, heroic feat or not.
2. I would say depends on the heroic feat. you can search, revive and attack in the middle of a move action.
3. as overlord you are allowed to punch cheaty players like that in the face and shout 'that's what you get for being too technical with the rules.'


The worst part is that none of them have read the rules, they have no interest in it.


That's pretty distressing, that's kind of in "why are you playing with these people" territory.

For a complex game, in my area, it's a baseline expectation that everyone has at least skimmed the rules and made a good-faith attempt to absorb the basic mechanics.


What?? If I had that expectation, I wouldn't have any players!
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Triu Greykith
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sirmuffinman wrote:
The worst part is that none of them have read the rules, they have no interest in it.
So tell them the rules say Immobilized means no movement of any kind; end of discussion.
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Kelly Overholser
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I'm tempted to think that heroic feats are allowed to break rules like this and allow movement while immobilized. Of course, the same happens for the overlord's monsters, if there are any that can move without using an actual "move action".

Note that while this allows Jain to use her feat, it doesn't allow Syndrael to grant movement to an immobilized hero (either herself or another hero), since it specifies that the movement is a move action.

Regardless, no, you can't interrupt Jain's feat to do anything other than the attack from that feat - you can't use a second attack, or any other action, as only move actions can be interrupted.
 
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Andrew Dale
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Worth bearing in mind that the hero burning his or her feat at that point may not be optimal timing and coud cost them later on. Your monsters have a chance to immobilise again later in the encounter and then make sure they've flipped their hero sheet over
 
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Igor Pushkar
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Dexter345 wrote:
Rules as written, you can use Heroic Feats that allow movement while immobilized


Please, when you make reference to rules, post page number. There is no rule that let you use heroic feat to move when immobilized as well as no rule to forbid it.

Until FAQed you can only say how you would interpret this issue. As for me, immobilized is immobilized, you cannot voluntarily leave your current square, point.

FFG, FAQ please, faster...
*drink*
 
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Chris J Davis
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soddy wrote:
Dexter345 wrote:
Rules as written, you can use Heroic Feats that allow movement while immobilized


Please, when you make reference to rules, post page number. There is no rule that let you use heroic feat to move when immobilized as well as no rule to forbid it.

Until FAQed you can only say how you would interpret this issue. As for me, immobilized is immobilized, you cannot voluntarily leave your current square, point.

FFG, FAQ please, faster...
*drink*


Completely and utterly wrong, I'm afraid - Dexter345 is correct. The rules say you can use your Heroic Feats once per encounter. Nothing in the rules counters this (including the Immobilize card). So you can use heroic feats while Immobilized (Immobilize only prevents move actions and spending fatigue to move - it says nothing about preventing Heroic Feats).

So there's the rules. There's no "interpretation" about it.

Oh, and rules for Heroic Feats are on pg.15.
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R N
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Interesting, so what about skills that move the heroes? IIRC these would fall into the same grey area as Heroic Feats... although they are less heroic.
 
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Blake Davis
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Feats and Skills for movement are both fine, per the rules. Immobilized says "You cannot perform move actions or suffer fatigue to gain movement points. Discard this card or token at the end of your turn."

Note how under "Actions" for a hero card, "Movement" is one action, while "Skill or Feat" (with the arrow symbol) is another action. The only "Movement Action" is an action spent for the sole purpose of movement.

Immobilized prevents that action, and spending fatigue for movement. Everything else, from a Wildlander's Nimble to Jain Fairwood's Feat, is fine while Immobilized.
 
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Kelly Overholser
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As long as the card doesn't mention a "move action" specifically, it's fair game.
 
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