Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
57 Posts
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 

Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Heroes Lose Every Time....What am I doing wrong? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Albert
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
So.....played through the Act I of the campaign 3 times now. The heroes die every quest whether it is 2-4 players. We've tried a few combinations of heroes and classes that seemed effective at first, but still not enough to win consistently.

We are focused on objectives, but also realize that killing monsters aid us in getting past them to the objective. We ensure we have reach weapons or ranged weapons to battle shadow dragons more effectively.

I'm looking for general tips as to HOW other people are winning as the heroes consistently....

We just threw the campaign out the window for a third time and played "The Dawnblade" in epic mode. No heroes even got past the water tiles and we gave up on turn 5 when we were still in the entrance, everyone was knocked out and surrounded by a Naga and shadow dragon. This got me to think about...if I had the large sum of gold PLUS a choice of buying any of the items and 6 exp of skills that synergized with each other, and we were still being demolished wi no chance of winnning......how is this balanced?

(please tell me....what I can do differently. thanks)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vernan Stanton
Australia
Brisbane
Queensland
flag msg tools
badge
Trapped In A World I Never Made...
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
try cheating it works for me all the time.devil
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TheBurd wrote:
The heroes die every quest

I assume you mean "lose", not "die"?

It's hard to give real advice since we don't know how you're playing, what kinds of heroes you're using, etc. Losing a quest does not mean losing the campaign though, Act II gets a lot better weapons, etc.

As for The Dawnblade specifically, we played that in the Advanced mode and it was a cakewalk for the Heroes. I can't remember exactly the setup, but I do remember the second Encounter, with that relic, we were wiping up the floor left and right.

The quests are definitely winnable on both sides. Having said that, the game is much more forgiving for the Overlord than the Heroes, so the most experienced players should probably play the Heroes. Also, don't forget to use your feats and use them early, especially movement ones. Extra movement seems very important in almost all the quests...

-shnar
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brad DeRan
United States
Columbus
Ohio
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
are you using act 2 monsters for some reason? because everything i have played has not been that hard in the campaign at all and has been pretty balanced.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Vanderzee
United States
California
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Need more details of your game. Is the overlord only attacking ONCE each round with each monster (no double attacks). That seems to be a common mistake.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
R N
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
If you haven't tried it yet, you should switch off who is playing the OL.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Albert
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Using the following:
750 gold to spend and 6 xp each. We bought greatsword, ice storm, fire bombs, chain mail and elven cloak.

Challadra (the one with Brightwing Familiar) as Necromancer
The one with 4 free movement points as Disciple
Syndrael as Berserker.

OL with Naga, Shadow Dragon and Bane Spiders. With Warlod cards blood rage, bloodlust and reinforcements.

Basically we only killed one naga first turn. Proceeded to continually kill a shadow dragon on each of our subsequent turns and maybe a naga as well. But eventually the OL wore us down with reinforcements coming at the beginning of the turn....keeping the necromancer immobilized. Actually the necromancer started getting knocked down first, then one good fire break from a dashed dragon to get into position killed two of us....and then eventually this degraded to all three of us getting knocked out.

We played again with a runemaster with ghost armor and it was a lot better.....so perhaps it was the team comp? We still lost however, but the encounter hinged on a single dice roll which is much more satisfying than getting steamrolled immediately almost.

Thank you for the common rule suggestions, I don't believe we are making any as far as the forums go.....^_^

But this is just one quest. I just find it hard to swallow that the heroes only ever won Fat Goblin once in campaign and never the others.....I feel in the campaign you are less well equipt than the free choices you get in the single-quest way of playing...any comments on this?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Wait, are you stopping the game after the heroes are knocked out? Back to what I first asked, are you not playing with the Revive Hero rules? That would explain a lot...

-shnar
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jef stuyck
Belgium
flag msg tools
shnar wrote:
Wait, are you stopping the game after the heroes are knocked out? Back to what I first asked, are you not playing with the Revive Hero rules? That would explain a lot...

-shnar


Yea if you do this you will never win
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Bobisch
Germany
flag msg tools
Also, the Overlord should not have been able to buy those cards you name (A Lvl 1, a Lvl 2 and a Lvl 3 Card), because he needs TWO Lvl 1 Cards of the respective Category to add a Lvl 2 and 3 Cards of the same Category in Total to add a Lvl 3. So maybe thats a reason too
(Reference p. 20 in the rulebook)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Marley
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The conversion kit favors the OL. Try playing with just the basic game.

One other thing that is often missed: OL monsters can only attack once per turn.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
jef stuyck
Belgium
flag msg tools
youperguy wrote:
The conversion kit favors the OL. Try playing with just the basic game.

One other thing that is often missed: OL monsters can only attack once per turn.


tbh there are some very nice hero's in there as well like the big cow 2 movement + 1 attack ?

or the guy with a black die and always gets a surge when he doesn't wear any armor.


Owyea and another tip ... read the rulebook again because if you missed the overlord cards, you might have missed some other important stuff.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oscar
Spain
Madrid
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, if you make a party let's say,Nanok of the Blade, as Knight,Tomble Burrowell, as Thief, Elder Mok, as Disciple, and Mad Carthos as Necromancer.
You ll have a lot of sinergy using this team.

First you ll be able to pass the classic block that the OL will make almost every quest(Tomble special + Nanok skill oath of honour).

Mad Carthos will have "1 free fatigue" to use every turn so he will be able really early on to, make an attack and his pet 2 of them.

Elder mok have a really nice sinergy, as every time someone around heals or recover fatigue he will heal one heart or fatigue respectively. And you ll make attacks that heals or recover fatigue.

Also you ll be able to get a treasure almost every quest, due Tomble thief skill, the one that you take another card from the search deck.(which it's more important than it seems).

Tomble will be able to get black+white defense dice if he stays close to Nanok.

And for hard fights if every hero stays around of Nanok and he have the card that allows him for one fatigue to take damage from others its great(also the Necromacer can act like a "tank" with a skill that allows him to assign every heart to the pet).

And the special ability of Nanok its just awesome, he gains a free surge every attack, which means almost every attack gain 1 fatigue(sinergy with elder mok).

Also use "as fast" as you can every special you have , as usually the encounters are short enough, loot every search token if able.

Hope it helps.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Albert
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Krulz wrote:
Well, if you make a party let's say,Nanok of the Blade, as Knight,Tomble Burrowell, as Thief, Elder Mok, as Disciple, and Mad Carthos as Necromancer.
You ll have a lot of sinergy using this team.

First you ll be able to pass the classic block that the OL will make almost every quest(Tomble special + Nanok skill oath of honour).

Mad Carthos will have "1 free fatigue" to use every turn so he will be able really early on to, make an attack and his pet 2 of them.

Elder mok have a really nice sinergy, as every time someone around heals or recover fatigue he will heal one heart or fatigue respectively. And you ll make attacks that heals or recover fatigue.

Also you ll be able to get a treasure almost every quest, due Tomble thief skill, the one that you take another card from the search deck.(which it's more important than it seems).

Tomble will be able to get black+white defense dice if he stays close to Nanok.

And for hard fights if every hero stays around of Nanok and he have the card that allows him for one fatigue to take damage from others its great(also the Necromacer can act like a "tank" with a skill that allows him to assign every heart to the pet).

And the special ability of Nanok its just awesome, he gains a free surge every attack, which means almost every attack gain 1 fatigue(sinergy with elder mok).

Also use "as fast" as you can every special you have , as usually the encounters are short enough, loot every search token if able.

Hope it helps.


Thanks for the tips. Except I wish we didn't have to power game to 'win' as heroes. We do blow most of out heorics in the first turn to try to prevent the OL from forming a stronger blockade. I find searching is great, even in quest mode, since a health potion and stamina potion really turns the tables sometimes. (But we still lose at the end...lol)

---

For everyone else. In epic rules the OL gets 8 exp of OL cards.

So 2 bloodrage, 1 bloodlust and 1 reinforce is only 7 experience and allowed. He actually also bought Dark Resilience.

Monsters only attack once, but there are 2 'frenzy' cards in the deck. Often when we stun his monsters, just a dash + frenzy hurts, but that's expected. =) The OL IS burning two cards to do it.

Yes, we revive each other, we use health potions to stand ourselves up when we can and even strategize when to use the disciples heroic feat (it was the hero with the free 4 movement points....) to revive heroes in range. Unfortunately he was the second one getting knocked down every turn....and sorta didn't help much any more.

Please, I really don't think I'm playing any rules wrong. If you've seen me on the forums, how can you honestly believe I would be letting monsters do two attack actions??? (Yes we realize some monster abilities count as attacks and some don't, ex. the Naga can attack then grab.)

---

Maybe I didn't explain the knocking out cycle clearly enough. Once the necromancer was down first. Since the OL reinforces in the beginning of his turn, even if we kill off all the monsters in the hallway in the beginning. He spawns them again, and proceeds to pick off the 2-6 health my necromancer has and chips away at another hero also. The disciple's healing ability eventually was not usable because we were using a 'Time of Need' + 'Radiant Light'combo to get fatigue back first (assuming the hero had 1 free fatigue left before) to try and damage and heal everyone.

The map is quite small so with a single dash the shadow dragon that we probably spent majority of our skills killing would have positioned itself in pretty much the same space (we tried to block its movement to the best of our ability while minimizing the chance that one of us would be isolated behind. And a firebreath or just a focused blow from the dragon would knock someone out again.

---

Am I wrongly assuming I could win with an average choice of heroes and a few skill choice 'mistakes' in a campaign?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Marley
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TheBurd wrote:


Am I wrongly assuming I could win with an average choice of heroes and a few skill choice 'mistakes' in a campaign?


If the OL is powergaming then the heroes need to powergame. It sounds like you have an OL playing to win. Then the heroes need to powergame and do unfair things back or it will be blowout.

If the heroes make mistakes against a good OL, you will lose. You can make mistakes against an inexperienced OL and still win.

Perhaps the thing to do is change up who is the OL? If your OL is the best player he might help the hero side find better tactics and make fewer mistakes.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Albert
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
youperguy wrote:
TheBurd wrote:


Am I wrongly assuming I could win with an average choice of heroes and a few skill choice 'mistakes' in a campaign?


If the OL is powergaming then the heroes need to powergame. It sounds like you have an OL playing to win. Then the heroes need to powergame and do unfair things back or it will be blowout.

If the heroes make mistakes against a good OL, you will lose. You can make mistakes against an inexperienced OL and still win.

Perhaps the thing to do is change up who is the OL? If your OL is the best player he might help the hero side find better tactics and make fewer mistakes.


Yeah we tried. I think we are all good OLs unfortunately. Hahaha. Maybe in time.....we'll figure out what to do with the heroes.

For the time being, we're focussing on enjoying the experience whether we win or lose....sorta like Arkham Horror.

Actually in some cases when the OL does a significant blow initially, the whole quest becomes very boring for the OL to play as there isn't much to think about to win. And this is an opinion agreed upon by three different OLs we had.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
R N
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Am I wrongly assuming I could win with an average choice of heroes and a few skill choice 'mistakes' in a campaign?

Maybe, it depends on how "average" your choices are and how "average" your OL's choices are. I don't have the conversion kit, but I will try out the scenario tonight.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oscar
Spain
Madrid
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
slacks wrote:
I don't have the conversion kit, but I will try out the scenario tonight.

If you ask me it's a big must
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Albert
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Krulz wrote:
slacks wrote:
I don't have the conversion kit, but I will try out the scenario tonight.

If you ask me it's a big must


I agree the conversion kit it lots of fun! The OL actually gets more choices for monsters and arn't 'forced' to take monster types they don't want to.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oscar
Spain
Madrid
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yeah, besides you have loads of heroes to pick from. =)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
R N
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
I am hesitant because of the number of options added and the fact that they are "converted" options. This makes me wonder if the options were playtested enough. Also, I thought it was more than $20 :p.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Grainger
United Kingdom
Unspecified
Hampshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
slacks wrote:
I am hesitant because of the number of options added and the fact that they are "converted" options. This makes me wonder if the options were playtested enough.


I'm not convinced the base game was playtested enough, so I find it hard to imagine every combination of conversion kit hero/class was thoroughly tested.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Grainger
United Kingdom
Unspecified
Hampshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TheBurd wrote:

I find searching is great, even in quest mode, since a health potion and stamina potion really turns the tables sometimes. (But we still lose at the end...lol)


Are you "selling" the potions after the quest, to get the money? You can do this, oddly, even if you use them. If you aren't doing this, your heroes will be much weaker as you go through the campaign.

By the way, I'm in a similar situation to you in that out group couldn't get the heroes to win, even with help from the Overlord! (I didn't make a couple of the rule mistakes people have flagged up here; it will be interesting to see if you fare better with these corrections). As Overlord, I even picked quests that I thought were easier for the heroes, and I didn't bother using my cards very much, and I still walked nearly all the missions (and ended up winning the rare ones that were closer). It just seemed an obvious "strategy" to block the hallways - and this just seemed far too effective.

After several missions we gave up... it just wasn't fun - to us, the game seemed very poorly thought out, and I suppose in some way we're not "getting it": people are generally positive about the game, and keep saying they have "a blast" playing, but I don't understand what they see in it! I hope you have more luck enjoying it than I did!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
R N
United States
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
My experience has been that the Act 1 encounters are more or less balanced when using the advanced rules (150g + 3XP), everyone has a good understanding of the encounter, and everyone is of similar skill level. I have only used the core models as well.

Without the gold and XP the game seems to favor the OL, sometimes overwhelmingly so (Castle Daerion encounter 2 comes to mind).

Some encounters favor the OL or heroes if no one is experienced with the encounter. For instance, the heroes lost encounter 1 of Masquerade Ball by a significant margin on the first playthrough and then proceeded to dominate on all subsequent playthroughs by using better tactics. The OL's tactics for this encounter are much more obvious than for the heroes so the first playthrough seems to favor the OL. This seems to be a common "problem."

Obviously similar skill level is required for a balanced game, but I think if anything it takes more skill to win as the heroes than the OL. It is also important to note that the heroes need to have good builds to compete with the OL and these decisions are often made without much knowledge. The OL needs to pick good open groups, but he can change his choice each encounter and so has a lot more knowledge about his later choices than the heroes.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Gross
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
TheBurd wrote:

Please, I really don't think I'm playing any rules wrong.


Then I know this must be really frustrating for you, but I'm still gonna check on one I got wrong:

The stats for the Act I monsters are on top of the card, and Act II are on the bottom. For some reason that just seems counter intuitive to me; I don't know why.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.