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Descent: Journeys in the Dark» Forums » Rules

Subject: "attacking" vs "inflicting damage" rss

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Frank Otte
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1) Bogran the Shadow: When Bogran the Shadow attacks an enemy that did not have line of sight to him at the start of the current turn, he gains +2 damage.

2) Mad Carthos: When making Magic attacks, Mad Carthos gains +2 damage.

3) Nara the Fang: Enemy figures damaged by one of Nara's attacks suffer 1 extra damage for each space they occupy beyond the first.

In the hero abilities descriptions (1) and (2) the wording is about attacking an enemy, which seems to imply, that the additional damage is added in all circumstances (assuming the attack is not a failure and has enough range, and in case of Carthos, is a magic attack).

In contrast, example (3) says, that the additional damage is only granted, if the enemy is actually damaged. Does that mean, that, if all regular damage is absorbed by armor, the bonus damage is not granted?
 
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Bryce K. Nielsen
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Sure looks like it. Nara's extra damage is only granted if the figure is damaged by at least 1 wound.

-shnar
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Jeremy Lennert
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Typically when they're talking about post-armor effects, I believe they use the word "wounds". "Damage" is before armor.

But she wouldn't deal bonus damage if her attack didn't do any damage in the first place (some dice have sides with no hearts). Also, unlike Bogran's ability, Nara's bonus damage is calculated separately for each target, instead of applying to the entire attack when a condition is met.
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Scott Lewis
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While I see your point with #1 and #2, I disagree that they would deal damage no matter what. The +2 damage would fall under the category (to me) as a "result" of the attack, and the rules say "X" causes all other results to be ignored. I believe the same is true (or similar) for not having enough range.

IE, the way I read the rules, you may "gain +2 damage", but unless the attack is successful, you don't actually deal that gained damage to the enemy.
 
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Master of the Waz
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Hermjard wrote:

In the hero abilities descriptions (1) and (2) the wording is about attacking an enemy, which seems to imply, that the additional damage is added in all circumstances (assuming the attack is not a failure and has enough range, and in case of Carthos, is a magic attack).


I think he is saying the same thing as you.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Jastin wrote:
Hermjard wrote:

In the hero abilities descriptions (1) and (2) the wording is about attacking an enemy, which seems to imply, that the additional damage is added in all circumstances (assuming the attack is not a failure and has enough range, and in case of Carthos, is a magic attack).


I think he is saying the same thing as you.

Ah, you are right; I guess I got too hasty in my reading That's what I get for trying to be all smart and stuff.

Carry on.
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Antistone wrote:
Typically when they're talking about post-armor effects, I believe they use the word "wounds". "Damage" is before armor.

But she wouldn't deal bonus damage if her attack didn't do any damage in the first place (some dice have sides with no hearts). Also, unlike Bogran's ability, Nara's bonus damage is calculated separately for each target, instead of applying to the entire attack when a condition is met.


Except it doesn't say "if the attack cause damage", it says if the enemy was damaged by the attack.
I don't think 'causes damage' - a technical game term, is the same as 'is damaged' meaning 'suffers an effect which actually damages'.

If Nara's normal attack damage is absorbed entirely by armour, for example, I don't believe the target receives the extra damage.

To give an example, for clarity, if Nara attacks a giant and does 5 damage, the attack does damage (which is all that is required for most effect tokens, such as Bleed etc), but the monster is not damaged, so IMO does not suffer 3 extra damage from Nara's special ability.

Quote:
Enemy figures damaged by one of Nara's attacks suffer 1 extra damage for each space they occupy beyond the first.
 
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Frank Otte
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Antistone wrote:
But she wouldn't deal bonus damage if her attack didn't do any damage in the first place (some dice have sides with no hearts).


No, this is not true. For example, you deal 1 damage (before armour) against an elite spider. This one damage is absorbed by the spiders armour of 2. The spider allocates four spaces, means 3 more damage by Nara.

(1) If Naras additional damage is applied before armour, then she deals 2 wounds (3 additional damage - 1 remaining armour).

(2) If Naras ability is only applied if she actually inflicts wounds with the regular damage, then she would not inflict any wounds at all in this example.

What is true?
 
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Corbon Loughnan
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Hermjard wrote:
Antistone wrote:
But she wouldn't deal bonus damage if her attack didn't do any damage in the first place (some dice have sides with no hearts).


No, this is not true. For example, you deal 1 damage (before armour) against an elite spider. This one damage is absorbed by the spiders armour of 2. The spider allocates four spaces, means 3 more damage by Nara.

(1) If Naras additional damage is applied before armour, then she deals 2 wounds (3 additional damage - 1 remaining armour).

(2) If Naras ability is only applied if she actually inflicts wounds with the regular damage, then she would not inflict any wounds at all in this example.

What is true?


(2), see my much edited reply above
 
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Jeremy Lennert
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Hermjard wrote:
Antistone wrote:
But she wouldn't deal bonus damage if her attack didn't do any damage in the first place (some dice have sides with no hearts).


No, this is not true. For example, you deal 1 damage (before armour) against an elite spider. This one damage is absorbed by the spiders armour of 2. The spider allocates four spaces, means 3 more damage by Nara.

That is not the kind of situation I was describing. Suppose, instead, she fires a Bow at the spider and her attack dice roll a grand total of 0 damage before armor (no hearts on any dice)...
 
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Jeremy Lennert
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corbon wrote:
if Nara attacks a giant and does 5 damage, the attack does damage (which is all that is required for most effect tokens, such as Bleed etc), but the monster is not damaged, so IMO does not suffer 3 extra damage from Nara's special ability.

Let me get this straight. We both agree that damage is dealt to the monster in your example (if we don't agree on that, read step 6 of the attack sequence). But you are arguing that that the phrase "is damaged" should not be interpreted as meaning "has damage dealt to it", but instead as some other thing that you made up and haven't actually defined?

And you believe this on the basis of...?
 
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