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Subject: Drawing a new action - can you play it? rss

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Chuchip McGee
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We've played Dominion a few times now (is it normal that it still takes us 90 minutes instead of 30?) and we don't know what we should do in the following case.

Player 2 has a card in his hand that allows 1 additional action and to draw 1 card. He does not have an additional action in his hand to start with, but he draws an action card for his draw card. Can he play it?
 
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Ben Lott
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Yes.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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If he plays the card that grants the extra card and the extra action and he draws an action card, he can play it.
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Roberta Yang
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Drawing cards is just for decoration. You're never allowed to actually play the cards you draw, but the designer felt that Dominion would have had insufficient shuffling in it if he hadn't tossed a few useless draw effects into the game.
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Rick Teverbaugh
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salty53 wrote:
Drawing cards is just for decoration. You're never allowed to actually play the cards you draw, but the designer felt that Dominion would have had insufficient shuffling in it if he hadn't tossed a few useless draw effects into the game.


Please don't take this reply seriously.
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Chuchip McGee
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I was just reading it aloud to our 8-year-old and said "I think this one is trying to confuse us" Thanks for confirming!
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Rick Teverbaugh
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You're welcome. I just spent three days of teaching Dominion and explaining Dark Ages to players. Some people forget how it feels to be new to a game. Have fun.
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Jason Clague
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Always remember that '+1 action' does not mean 'play another action right now' - it means you may play another action this turn. Always finish doing what one card says before playing the next action.
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The Compulsive Completist
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90 minutes is a long time but you'll get faster as you get more familiar with the game. 30-45 minutes for a four player game isn't out of the ordinary.
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Ben MacFarlane
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salty53 wrote:
Drawing cards is just for decoration. You're never allowed to actually play the cards you draw, but the designer felt that Dominion would have had insufficient shuffling in it if he hadn't tossed a few useless draw effects into the game.


Every time I read an unnecessarily snarky, completely unhelpful response to a usually beginner dominion question, I know immediately who it is without reading the username.

Are you trying to impress someone? Or are some questions too obvious to warrant answers without scorn?

Sorry OP for derailing.
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Dylan Melton
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It may have been some harmless sarcasm, I have friends that joke with me in that way. Either way, just don't give it attention if it's a bother.

Moving on in that spirit, heck yeah, you can happily play actions that you drew that turn! That's some of the joyful combo nature of the game.
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Ben MacFarlane
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DylanAM wrote:
It may have been some harmless sarcasm, I have friends that joke with me in that way. Either way, just don't give it attention if it's a bother.


Emphasis mine.

I hope you're right - obviously its more difficult to discern tone through text communication as compared to voice or in person, so I may be reading Roberta's posts as more malicious than they are meant.

Normally I just don't pay it any attention, but it seemed to me there's a clear pattern, and I personally find it annoying and thought it was worth saying something.

I suppose probably should have just sent a direct message instead of calling someone out publicly. Sorry for dragging this out more.
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Tim Stellmach
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bmacfarlane wrote:
DylanAM wrote:
It may have been some harmless sarcasm, I have friends that joke with me in that way. Either way, just don't give it attention if it's a bother.


Emphasis mine.

Not everyone has a keen sense of social propriety about when it's okay to do this sort of thing.
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Chris Gernon
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bethiebaby wrote:
(is it normal that it still takes us 90 minutes instead of 30?)


I remember my family's first few games took up to two hours until a friend pointed out that the game ends when all the PROVINCE cards are gone, not when all the VICTORY POINT cards are gone. Not sure if this is what is happening for you, but I thought I'd mention it.

Also, don't forget the other condition that ends the game: when any 3 supply card piles are empty. Once we found this out, we realized most of our 2-hour games should have ended after about 45 minutes based on that rule alone.
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Ron Laufer
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Games with only beginners playing can take a long time. A single veteran in the mix can speed things up greatly. Aside from the possible rules issues mentioned, new players don't always get the strategy right away. Specifically, they often get wrapped up in buying tons of fun looking action cards, and don't buy enough money to get to buying provinces. This can slow the game down greatly.
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Brent M
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My wife and I usually take a bit longer to play, but we've only played about a dozen times and still don't know all the cards that well.
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Steve L

Massachusetts
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Basically:

+1 Card = draw a card right now
+1 coin = your budget for buying cards increases by 1
+1 Buy = you are allowed to buy one more card during the Buy phase
+1 Action = you are allowed to play one more Action card during the Action phase

You start out each turn with the ability to play one Action card during the Action phase and the ability to buy one card during the Buy phase. If you play a card whose text says "+1 Card, +1 Action" you are now able to play two Action cards during the Action phase and have already played one, meaning that you are allowed to play one more. That card may be any of the Action cards in your hand, including the one that you drew as part of the first Action you played.

Since this is another common misconception, unless stated on a card you may not play one Action while another is still being processed. One example of a card that explicitly states that you may play another Action during its processing is Throne Room, and you can see from the wording that it explicitly states you may (actually must) play another Action.
 
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Fred Snertz
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bmacfarlane wrote:
Every time I read an unnecessarily snarky, completely unhelpful response to a usually beginner dominion question, I know immediately who it is without reading the username.

To be fair, I think salty usually unleashes her acid tongue on people that deserve it. In this case, no, her reply was horribly unjustified. You can't win them all, but it doesn't mean you should quit trying :)
 
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Trevor Kindree
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As a way of explaining the game to my girlfriend the first time we played (meaning I bought the game, read the rules, and then tried to teach it to her as we played), I ended up using little chits of paper on them to keep track of Actions / Buys / Coins.

Each turn she got 1 action, 1 buy. To play a card, she got rid of an action chit. If the card got her additional actions, she got those immediately. Took a whole of 5 minutes to setup, write (A / B / C) on them, and explain why.... 2 games later (second game was just for clarification), never used 'em again with her. It DOES slow down the game a fair bit, but it gives new players a better sense of where the actions are going / what they're doing / how to keep track of them...

The biggest issue I had to face was the mentality of "Treasure generates Coins, but you don't use up / trade-in / sell the treasure to get those Coins". Simple, yes? Until I found myself caught, countering a mentality of "if you have Gold, and it makes 3 coins, and it takes you 8 coins to buy a whole Province, why not just sell the Gold and get the Province now, letting them make the interest down the road - even Copper, after 8 turns, would generate enough coins to buy a Province, so why not sell it for a Province and let them keep the eventual profit after it makes more than 8 coins??" - I have yet to figure out if she was joking, or just trying to cause me pain.
 
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Chuchip McGee
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Thanks so much to everyone for their clarifications. I can't wait to play again with this new knowledge. Plus I've been reading other threads and so fully expect to win this time
 
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Eric Matthews
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And don't worry about the length. 30 min is a good time frame for a 2 pl dominion game in which everyone knows the rules (and you have a board with no slow cards like possession or big chains). My table can only seem to finish a dominion game in under an hour if there are 4 or fewer of us and there are only simple cards. There just always seems to be someone who still asks about a rule every turn or something.

Also, Most people on these boards and other strategy sites seem to assume dominion games are all 2pl unless stated otherwise. So keep that in mind when receiving advice.

Your game will speed up significantly about the time when none of the players have a questions on how the basic elements work together and once everyone has figured out a quick way to shuffle that works for them.

 
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Vid Dles
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On game length:

Dominion, at its core, is a race. It's a race to get the most points in the smallest amount of time. Whoever does that wins the game.

When you're first learning the game, it takes a long time to play. This is because new players often don't realize that it's a race, and even if they do, they don't know the cards well enough to know how to win that race.

But, that's what makes learning Dominion so much fun. While learning, you are experimenting with all these cards to find out how they really work and what actually happens when you play them. All the cards say what they do, but none of them say why you want to do it. You learn the "why's" by playing them and then seeing what happens.

There will be many times during play that you'll realize that there's a need that is not being met. Those realizations are your teachers.

For example, you might have a turn where you have several action cards to play but none of them give you an extra action, so you can only play one of them. The need that presented itself is the need to use all of the action cards in your hand. You can meet that need by buying more Villages, or you can meet that need by buying fewer action cards and more treasure (the treasure doesn't require an action to play, and if you had only one of those actions but more treasure instead, then more of your cards will be useful). Which of those two options will help you win the race? Well, sometimes it's the first and sometimes it's the second. The more familiar you are with the game, the easier it will be to tell which of those two will work better.

So, pay attention to those situations as they arise. "If only I had more Villages." "My opponents are killing me with these attack cards. If only I'd picked up some attack cards as well to even things out, or something to counter them like a Moat or actions that let me draw more cards." "If only I had more money." (Definitely pay attention to that one.) "My opponent just pulled an excellent maneuver with the cards. How could I do that?" "Holy crap, Throne Rooming a card with +1 action effectively turns it into a Village! Wish I would have realized that sooner."

That's the fun in learning the game, and that's what will eventually shorten the game from 90 to 30 minutes.
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