Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #1» Forums » Rules

Subject: Advance Phase: all units can move w/ regard to MF? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Victor Vector
msg tools
Just played my first ASLSK (EP1:S51) last night. Had a question:

As I understand it it, all the attacker's units may move 1 hex. This includes Prep-fire units, and units that have expended all their MF already. The exception is pinned units and units already in CX.

So, a MMC that moves 4 hexes to just outside a building can enter the building w/o being affected by CX, right? The only time they get affected by CX is when their portage brings their MF down to 2, they have already expended that 2, and the AdvPh move (such as into a building) would make them spend double their max MF.

Is this right?

Just seems MMC MF is really 4(MPh) + 1hex(AdvPh). And that seems odd to me.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ruben Rigillo
Italy
Roma
Rm
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
My first rule answer!

As I have understood ALL unpinned, unbroken attacking units may move one hex in APh regardless of what they did during that turn Previous phases.
But if a unit advances in a hex that would cost its whole MF allowance, it becames CX.
On the other side, an already CX unit can NOT advance in a hex that would cost its whole MF allowance.
(3.7 second paragraph).
All this taking into account Unit's PP (CX have their PP lowered by one).

Hope It is useful

Ruben
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bradley Knoll
Canada
Shilo
Manitoba
flag msg tools
MMP Disliker
badge
Soldier for Up Front, but is my back to the Volga or the Spree river?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It is not Hex, but Location because a hex can have more than one location. Subtle but important difference.

All units that are not pinned or broken can advance in the Adv Ph, so un pinned CX units get their Adv Ph. If they are CX they can not advance vs difficult terrain (something that would cost 4 or more MF or all of their available MF that causes a unit to become CX).

You get CX by declaring double time or advancing versus difficult terrain. CX is a form of penalty for extra movement factor (MF). Your guys are tired, they can't carry as much or fight their best.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeffrey D Myers
United States
Albuquerque
New Mexico
flag msg tools
"Always rely upon a happy mind alone." Geshe Chekhawa.
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't think that ASLSK has the Location concept....
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bradley Knoll
Canada
Shilo
Manitoba
flag msg tools
MMP Disliker
badge
Soldier for Up Front, but is my back to the Volga or the Spree river?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
oops my bad.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martí Cabré

Terrassa
Catalonia, Spain
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
vectorvictor wrote:
Just seems MMC MF is really 4(MPh) + 1hex(AdvPh). And that seems odd to me.


Just stick to the rules and play... do not try to understand the designer decisions as they are sometimes obscure.

As you say, an MMC will have 4MF and a bonus of 1 Location (hex in the SKs). That is done in order to work the defensive fire system in ASL. Only vehicles and special units such as berserkers (not present in the SKs) can enter enemy hexes during the MPh, the other units have to move adjacent to the enemy, exchange all possible defensive and advance fires, then rout the broken units and finally advance into the location.

There are other systems more or less refined that allow or not this sequence. ASL just does it this way.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robin Reeve
Switzerland
St-Légier
Vaud
flag msg tools
badge
Looking for a game session in Switzerland? Send me a pm!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
peacmyer wrote:
I don't think that ASLSK has the Location concept....
It hasn't. SK rules only speak of hexes.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pierce Ostrander
United States
Albuquerque
New Mexico
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Robin wrote:
peacmyer wrote:
I don't think that ASLSK has the Location concept....
It hasn't. SK rules only speak of hexes.


Yes - and...

bk_otj wrote:
"...All units that are not pinned or broken can advance in the Adv Ph, so un pinned CX units get their Adv Ph. If they are CX they can not advance vs difficult terrain (something that would cost 4 or more MF or all of their available MF that causes a unit to become CX).

You get CX by declaring double time or advancing versus difficult terrain. CX is a form of penalty for extra movement factor (MF). Your guys are tired, they can't carry as much or fight their best.


The SK rules do not define "advance vs. difficult terrain" either. So, there is no such thing (just as there is no such thing as a location within a hex).

The implication? - a careful reading of the SK rules does not seem to allow you to expend more MF than your current allowance, in any situation. Advance Phase or otherwise. So, you must always have at least the number of required MF to enter a hex in the Advance Phase - if you have less than required, you may not enter that hex.

and, you may advance into a hex costing 4 MF (or more) and NOT become CX, as long as you have more MF available than is required (i.e. squad stacked with a leader).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eddy del Rio
United States
San Antonio
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
fubar AWOL wrote:
The SK rules do not define "advance vs. difficult terrain" either.

Actually they do ... in ASLSK2. See rule 3.7, 2nd paragraph
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pierce Ostrander
United States
Albuquerque
New Mexico
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
edelrio wrote:
fubar AWOL wrote:
The SK rules do not define "advance vs. difficult terrain" either.

Actually they do ... in ASLSK2. See rule 3.7, 2nd paragraph


Here is the second Para of 3.7:

So, where is it defined? I'm not seeing it.

"A unit advancing into a hex that requires all its MF must become CX. For example, a Russian squad carrying a five-PP MMG has only two MF and therefore must become CX to advance into a hex requiring two MF to enter during the MPh (brush, hills, woods or building), unless accompanied by a leader who adds two MF and one IPC to the squad, thereby leaving it with five MF. A CX unit may not advance into a hex that would cost all its MF to enter. For example, a CX German squad possessing a four PP HMG would have only two MF left after deducting for two excess PP (its IPC is reduced to two due to being CX) and cannot advance into a building hex, unless it is accompanied by a leader."

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ruben Rigillo
Italy
Roma
Rm
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi Pierce!
There are no definitions of "adv vs difficult terrain" in SK, but the rule you cited above has the same effect.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeffrey D Myers
United States
Albuquerque
New Mexico
flag msg tools
"Always rely upon a happy mind alone." Geshe Chekhawa.
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Except that A4.72 in full ASL says:

4.72 vs DIFFICULT TERRAIN: An advance into any hex whose MF cost (excluding SMOKE) is ≥ four MF or all of a unit’s available non-Double Time MF allotment (whichever is less) may not be made if the unit is already CX [EXC: Climbing, B11.432; Deep Stream Entry, B20.43]; otherwise it may advance but becomes CX in the process. In no case may a unit advance if it retains no MF after deducting for portage costs.

So, in full ASL one can advance if not CX and spend any number of MF, without regard to the number of MF available (if above zero) and then become CX.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pierce Ostrander
United States
Albuquerque
New Mexico
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Qwirz wrote:
Hi Pierce!
There are no definitions of "adv vs difficult terrain" in SK, but the rule you cited above has the same effect.


Not quite – compare 3.7 (above) to this from Peacmyer:

peacmyer wrote:
Except that A4.72 in full ASL says:

4.72 vs DIFFICULT TERRAIN: An advance into any hex whose MF cost (excluding SMOKE) is ≥ four MF or all of a unit’s available non-Double Time MF allotment (whichever is less) may not be made if the unit is already CX [EXC: Climbing, B11.432; Deep Stream Entry, B20.43]; otherwise it may advance but becomes CX in the process. In no case may a unit advance if it retains no MF after deducting for portage costs.

So, in full ASL one can advance if not CX and spend any number of MF, without regard to the number of MF available (if above zero) and then become CX.


Unfortunately for SK players, the final sentence in 4.72 did not make it over to the SK rules. The ability (as Peacmeyer extrapolates) “to move any number of MF... (if above zero)”, cannot be extrapolated from the SK Movement Phase or Advance Phase rules (please show me how and where if I am wrong!). In fact, the opposite: in the Movement Rules you may never spend more MF than you have available.

So, these rules differences exist:

In ASL you may advance as long as you have “above zero” MF (and are also not currently CX).
In SK you may not advance if a hex costs more than your available MF.

AND

In ASL you become CX when advancing into a hex that costs at least 4 MF (and may not move into it if you are already CX).
In SK there is no 4 MF threshold. You may advance without becoming CX into any terrain that is less than your current available MF.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Eddy del Rio
United States
San Antonio
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
SK2 3.7 wrote:
A unit advancing into a hex that requires all its MF must become CX


As in Advancing into a building hex that is on a hill one level above you. ASLSK2 introduces hills and makes this a possibility. If you ADVANCE into such a hex as a MMC (which has 4MF available) it will cost all your MF and you become CX. They may not be using the term Difficult Terrain but are introducing the concept nonetheless.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeffrey D Myers
United States
Albuquerque
New Mexico
flag msg tools
"Always rely upon a happy mind alone." Geshe Chekhawa.
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
With the caveat that if the MMC is carrying more than 3 portage points, it cannot make the advance, which is unlike advance versus difficult terrain.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pierce Ostrander
United States
Albuquerque
New Mexico
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
edelrio wrote:
SK2 3.7 wrote:
A unit advancing into a hex that requires all its MF must become CX


As in Advancing into a building hex that is on a hill one level above you. ASLSK2 introduces hills and makes this a possibility. If you ADVANCE into such a hex as a MMC (which has 4MF available) it will cost all your MF and you become CX. They may not be using the term Difficult Terrain but are introducing the concept nonetheless.


And it figures in this scenario:

Legio Patria Nostra

I think the SSR is that it has just rained and it cost +1 MF to move uphill, so moving up hill into a building in this scenario costs 5 MF.

Which means that a unit cannot advance in the Advance Phase up hill into a building (one of which is important to victory, if memory serves correctly) without being accompanied by a leader. It would require CX movement in the movement phase to make it into the hex without a leader in company.


2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.