Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
12 Posts

Schnapsen» Forums » General

Subject: Schnapsen rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Styles Macrae
Canada
flag msg tools
Hello Ron, I would like some clarification on the rules for the Austrian card game Schnapsen. Can a player, after winning the last trick declare 66 or more points after the talon was exhausted or that player closed? I imagine the one point rule wouldn't apply in this case. And if the opponent of the player who closed wins the last trick, does he earn the 2 or 3 penalty points because his opponent didn't go out or declare? Does it make a difference in possible points if the opponent of the closer declares on the last trick in the rare possibility that he makes 66 or more before the closer? - or is it the same possible 2 or 3 penalty points against the closer?
2 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Queen Carlotta
Austria
Wien
flag msg tools
Contre nous de la tyrannie, l’étendard sanglant est levé
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
My name's not Ron, I just saw this popping up...
Not sure if I understand your questions correctly either, but here goes:
The player who closes _has to_ reach 66 otherwise she is penalized (her opponent wins 2/3 points instead of 1).
The last trick rule comes into play only, and here I quote Pagat: "If neither player closed the talon and neither went out, i.e., play continued to the very last trick with the talon exhausted, the player who takes the last trick wins the hand, scoring one game point, irrespective of the number of card points the players have taken. "
Last trick wouldn't make sense after closing - either the closing player reaches 66 or she doesn't - winning her 1, 2 (if her opponent hadn't reached 33 before closing) or 3 points (if her opponent hasn't won a single trick before closing), or winning her opponent the respective points.
--- Ah, now I see your problem: No, if you didn't go out before the last trick and play the last card you simply check if you reached 66 (in the soft variant you will have counted the cards before anyways) - no need for a last trick rule here.
1 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Styles Macrae
Canada
flag msg tools
Sorry Alois, I'm new to this site, thanks for your answer. I'll try to be clearer. What I meant was, can a player go out or declare his 66 points right after he wins the last trick played or is it too late and therefore goes by the one point rule, you said the players simply check their cards, does that mean that the player who thinks he reaches 66 must declare before doing this in case he can earn more than one point? But what I wasn't sure about either was that in the Pagat Schnapsen rules site they say, which I understand, that if the player who closes plays until the last trick and loses the last trick obviously he can't declare and his opponent earns 2 or 3 penalty points depending if the opponent had won no tricks before the talon was closed, but what I'm not sure of is if the closer plays until the last trick and makes at least 66 can he declare after winning that last trick? Because, as I understand from the Pagat rules, if a player who closes doesn't declare, than that player loses at least 2 points even if he scored 66 or over.. there, hope that wasn't too long winded, it's the kind of questions that cover a lot of angles!
1 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Queen Carlotta
Austria
Wien
flag msg tools
Contre nous de la tyrannie, l’étendard sanglant est levé
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
but what I'm not sure of is if the closer plays until the last trick and makes at least 66 can he declare after winning that last trick?

yes, if you reach 66 with this last trick, you win the game. You can "declare" your 66 points after winning a trick, no matter if it's the very end of the game.

An explicit reference to the "no last trick rule after closing" on German Wikipedia:
Quote:
Wer den letzten Stich erzielen kann, spielt im Falle einer Talonsperre keine Rolle.
(~"After closing the talon , it does not matter who wins the last trick")

Welcome to BGG, by the way!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Styles Macrae
Canada
flag msg tools
Thank you very much, that clarifies it for me. Thanks for the German lesson!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Tompa
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Welcome to the site, Styles, and to the Schnapsen corner. Alois did a great job answering your questions. I spotted a few things you asked that I don't think he answered explicitly.

Sturmund wrote:
Can a player, after winning the last trick declare 66 or more points after the talon was exhausted or that player closed? I imagine the one point rule wouldn't apply in this case.

I assume that by the "one point rule" you mean Pagat's rule that whoever takes the last trick with the talon exhausted scores 1 game point. Your guesses were right, that you can declare 66 after winning the last trick with the stock exhausted, and in that case there is a possibility that you could score more than 1 game point. You could only score more than 1 game point, though, if you'd very badly underestimated your point total before the final trick: there are 120 points in the deck, and your opponent would have to have fewer than 33 for you to score 2 game points.

Sturmund wrote:
Does it make a difference in possible points if the opponent of the closer declares on the last trick in the rare possibility that he makes 66 or more before the closer? - or is it the same possible 2 or 3 penalty points against the closer?

The non-closer's game points are the same whether the closer fails to reach 66 or whether the non-closer correctly declares 66 before the closer. And the latter could happen on any trick, not just the last trick.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Styles Macrae
Canada
flag msg tools
Thanks so much Martin, that really clarifies it for me. What was confusing for me was that certain rule sites mentioned that you can only declare or go out when you lead, which I understand, and just before leading to the next trick. And other rule sites said that you can declare after winning a trick at any moment of the hand... Then I guess the term going out wouldn't apply when declaring after the last trick!?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Tompa
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sturmund wrote:
What was confusing for me was that certain rule sites mentioned that you can only declare or go out when you lead, which I understand, and just before leading to the next trick. And other rule sites said that you can declare after winning a trick at any moment of the hand...

You can declare 66 any time your trick points increase; that is, immediately after winning any trick (even the last), or immediately after showing a marriage (without even completing the trick where you showed the marriage).

Sturmund wrote:
Then I guess the term going out wouldn't apply when declaring after the last trick!?

The Pagat site uses the term "going out" as a synonym for declaring 66. So sure, you can go out after winning the last trick.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ron
Austria
Vienna
flag msg tools
“It's all in the mind.” ― George Harrison
badge
Devoted Follower of the Most Holy Church of the Evil Bob. Possessed and down the road to become chaotic, evil & naughty. All hail the Evil Bob and his Stargate.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I guess I am the "Ron" - I got the same message from Styles in GeekMail form - where I also answered it meeple
2 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Queen Carlotta
Austria
Wien
flag msg tools
Contre nous de la tyrannie, l’étendard sanglant est levé
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
or immediately after showing a marriage (without even completing the trick where you showed the marriage).

Good point!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Styles Macrae
Canada
flag msg tools
Hi Martin. I do not know if you are familiar with the French
card games Belote and French Tarot? I wanted to know if there was a good
site that you know of that I can browse to pick up some strategy in the French Tarot game. I have a question about French Belote, in the French wikipedia site which is very in depth, they mention that in order to make your contract, you have to make at least 82 points, i.e.: more than your opponent and that if you tie 81-81, then your opponent immediately receives 81 points and the 81 points left is held over for the winner of the next round. Other sites say that the taker has to make at least 81 points, 81-81, yet some variants on the rule say at least 82 points, keep in mind that this is minus declarations, I prefer the variant with just belote rebelote,- king and queen trump suit in one's hand. What point rule do the French play with? 82 or 81 points to make contract?, or are these up to the players involved?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Tompa
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Sorry, but I don't know these games. I know the Hungarian game Alsos, which is related to Belote.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.