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http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Robert-Reich/2012/0821/Rom...

Is Robert Reich correct in this case? He always sounds reasonable to me but I never know for sure.

What are the Republican counter arguments here?

 
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Boaty McBoatface
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Yes I think he is. I do find it interesting that in effect he is going to engange in fiscal stimulas, he is just using defence spending to do it.
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Daniel Edwards
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I think its a terrible plan for achieving its stated goals but don't think this is a very deep or persuasive critique. He doesn't explain why cutting public programs is worse for the economy than the tax cuts. He lumps together changes to medicaid that won't come in for decades (ie beyond the point that most of even will even remember the Ryan plan) with present changes (Obamacare) and just makes assumptions there and moves on.

In short the same kind of shallow analysis that everyone should pan.
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This is the point from Reich that resonates with me the most:

FOURTH: He wants to add money to defense while cutting spending on education, infrastructure, and basic research and development. America already spends more on defense than the next five biggest military spenders put together. Our future productivity depends on the public investments Ryan wants to cut.


Romney wants to spend more on something we don't need (military) and cut vital things we do need (education, infrastructure, and research).

Why does the US need even more military spending?

It seems to me science and education are vital for "first world" economies. Innovation is what we still do best. Anyone can assemble widgets, and do it cheaper than the US can.
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Boaty McBoatface
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tesuji wrote:
This is the point from Reich that resonates with me the most:

FOURTH: He wants to add money to defense while cutting spending on education, infrastructure, and basic research and development. America already spends more on defense than the next five biggest military spenders put together. Our future productivity depends on the public investments Ryan wants to cut.

He's spending on something we don't need (military) and cutting things we do need (education, infrastructure, and research).

Why does the US need even more military spending?


It does not, but American 'growth' has often been fueld by defence spending. In essence he is not against huge governmetn spending, he just wants it re-directed to private sector shareholders.
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slatersteven wrote:
tesuji wrote:
This is the point from Reich that resonates with me the most:

FOURTH: He wants to add money to defense while cutting spending on education, infrastructure, and basic research and development. America already spends more on defense than the next five biggest military spenders put together. Our future productivity depends on the public investments Ryan wants to cut.

He's spending on something we don't need (military) and cutting things we do need (education, infrastructure, and research).

Why does the US need even more military spending?


It does not, but American 'growth' has often been fueld by defence spending. In essence he is not against huge governmetn spending, he just wants it re-directed to private sector shareholders.

Cynical view, but I'm afraid I can easily believe it.
 
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tesuji wrote:
Why does the US need even more military spending?

Perhaps one of the conservatives around here could enlighten us?
 
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tesuji wrote:
http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/Robert-Reich/2012/0821/Rom...

Is Robert Reich correct in this case? He always sounds reasonable to me but I never know for sure.

What are the Republican counter arguments here?



Reich is heavily liberal-- so you do need to filter it through that. Still look at the message and make your own decision if it seems reasonable.

Company over after my colonoscopy but first source check:

He quotes the "Economic Policy Institute". They are liberal.
So the job loss Reich posits is probably overstated at the least.

Who's Who » Politics Unspun
politicsunspun.com/?page_id=79
Jun 10, 2012 – American Civil Rights Institute, Conservative ... American Institute for Economic Research, Centrist ... Economic Policy Institute, Liberal

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RoverGuy wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
Reich is heavily liberal


Understatement of the day (year, decade??).

Century.

That's like saying "midnight is really dark" instead of saying something like "midnight is super-duper totally off-the-charts dark as shit, bro."
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William Boykin
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Sure, Bob Reich is a flaming liberal. But I've always felt that he had more common sense about how policy affects people- especially poor people, than someone like Paul Krugman, say.

Personally, I've always felt that his argument that the real wealth of a nation are its people, and spending money to help these people be as well educated, safe, and healthy to be as important as spending on other infrastructure like roads and bridges. He's essentially taking a Mid-Atlantic Whiggist sensibility and tying it into the modern age.

Darilian
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Darilian wrote:
He's essentially taking a Mid-Atlantic Whiggist sensibility and tying it into the modern age.


Wait... that didn't die with Henry Clay?
 
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slatersteven wrote:
American 'growth' has often been fueld by defence spending.


However defence spending is, in many areas, no longer cutting edge. For example the only way the military can get a device as good as the iPhone I'm typing this on is to buy their own iPhones (or an Android equivalent). Even with the military budget, the relevant part of it is massively outspent by the billions of mobile phone users on the planet. So you no longer get the leverage of defence spending now, civil market later. And thus defence spending isn't as good as it used to be.

(Of course there are areas that military technology is still the best. High performance jet aircraft for example. But the man in the street isn't going to be buying any jet aircraft, and while some of the technology will have application to civil aircraft, a lot won't. No one needs a stealth airliner.)
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Dearlove wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
American 'growth' has often been fueld by defence spending.


However defence spending is, in many areas, no longer cutting edge. For example the only way the military can get a device as good as the iPhone I'm typing this on is to buy their own iPhones (or an Android equivalent). Even with the military budget, the relevant part of it is massively outspent by the billions of mobile phone users on the planet. So you no longer get the leverage of defence spending now, civil market later. And thus defence spending isn't as good as it used to be.

(Of course there are areas that military technology is still the best. High performance jet aircraft for example. But the man in the street isn't going to be buying any jet aircraft, and while some of the technology will have application to civil aircraft, a lot won't. No one needs a stealth airliner.)


But the point I would argue is not to make stuff, but to pour government cash into the coffers of big business. It’s not even really about jib creation as the GOP operate under the assumption that if rich people get even richer that id good for the economy as a whole.
 
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tesuji wrote:
Is Robert Reich correct in this case? He always sounds reasonable to me but I never know for sure.


Reich never sounds reasonable to me, I think he's basically a kneejerk liberal who's just as guilty of motivated reasoning as his opponents. So I have no bias to agree with him here. On the actual points:

1. True but misleading. Cutting spending will modestly boost unemployment in the short term. On the other hand, if we spend money we don't have, then we accumulate more debt which we have to pay back which then means we boost unemployment in the long term. So cutting spending, in itself, is only bad if you think jobs now are more important than jobs in the future, or something like that. Or if you believe that somehow borrowing money to employ more people now is going to "stimulate" the economy and make it stronger in the long run, too. This is as fallacious as the Republican arguments that tax cuts will boost the economy and increase revenues.

2. Completely true. The Republican Party has been taken over by rich guys who want to slash taxes on rich guys like me so they can screw the working and middle class. No question about this one.

3. Basically true, although the ACA by itself won't do enough to control the increasing cost of Medicare, we are going to have to take additional measures over time to control the growth of health care costs. But, as a moral principle, we should do that in a different way than the Republican plan of "If you're poor, die quickly."

4. True. Romney and Ryan want to increase defense spending that we don't need and can't afford, even while cutting actual investments in our human capital and our future.

5. Ambiguous. Whether the Ryan budget cuts the deficit depends on your "baseline", i.e., what do you compare it to? There are several different possible baselines. Different people use different baselines depending on what point they want to make today (or what wool they want to pull over people's eyes).
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